Eric Clapton - Autumn Leaves

**ECross** · 10-08-2010, 05:55 PM

I know some of you have seen this before (since I found it on this forum), but I thought I would post it anyway for people who haven't heard it.

What do you think of it?

**His Hollowness** · 10-08-2010, 06:03 PM

I liked it.

**robertm2000** · 10-08-2010, 09:44 PM

Not bad. It's approached with a bit of reverence, but...it doesn't have the impact of say, Nat King Cole or Kenny Burrell. Clapton is a basic blues guitarist and this treatment of "Autumn Leaves" would count more as a pop style than jazz. So he didn't destroy it, but not a world shattering rendition...

**marshall** · 10-08-2010, 09:56 PM

I like it! But then again I'm a sucker for tastey guitar,no mater who plays it. And after all these years Clapton can still move me and make my heart smile.What album is that off, I would like to get it.

**His Hollowness** · 10-08-2010, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by marshall

I like it! But then again I'm a sucker for tastey guitar,no mater who plays it. And after all these years Clapton can still move me and make my heart smile.What album is that off, I would like to get it.

It's from "Clapton":
Amazon.com: Clapton: Eric Clapton: Music

**pickguard** · 10-08-2010, 11:22 PM

I was born in 1948,have been playing Guitar for about 45 years I retired about 4 years ago. No Eric Clapton is not my god, and I don't have any Clapton records. I just stated a fact Eric did a fine job singing Autumn Leaves. By the way Wes is my favorite, People said he sold out when he went Commercial but that doesn't make him any more or less a Jazz musician. How about Kenny Burrell is he a Jazz musician or a blues musician? It all depends on who you ask. I remember reading once Miles supposedly stated to Les Paul what a great Horn Player he was and he never had a hit. Les supposedly asked if he ever thought of playing the melody. Kenny G showed every one what playing the melody would do. He made a fortune doing it. There seems to be this Idea that if you don't take a song and improvise it to death your not considered a great Jazz player. Some of the best Jazz I have ever heard was some of this simplest music. But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy other styles of Jazz either.

**docbop** · 10-09-2010, 12:28 AM

Growing up in the 60's I have been listening to Clapton since john Mayall days. I was a big fan, but his playing hasn't done it for me in a long time and this sound like he's taking a nap. Same with my guitar hero Jeff Beck his new CD is too laid back. I love a great ballad and still love hearing Miles Davis or John Coltrane, or Pat Methney playing ballads. Tempo may be slow, but there still needs to be energy, life behind the notes.

**cosmic gumbo** · 10-09-2010, 12:39 AM

I heard that Eric Clapton, Rod Stewart, Elton John, and Phil Collins were recording an album crooning Broadway show tunes together with Barry Manilow as music director.

**mr. beaumont** · 10-09-2010, 01:03 AM

I dunno, not bad really. He doesn't really address the changes on the outro solo, just kinda does the "Clapton Blues Thing," but it sounds cool. Nice tone, and I like the "breathy" vocal.

I'd have just put the solo after the first pass thru the lyrics and kept the song to just under 4 minutes...the acoustic restating of the melody is a real snore.

Woulda liked it better without the Diana Krall strings, but overall, better than anything I've heard Clapton do in years. I say good on him.

'bodger--somebody leave the hanger in your shirt? You can't honestly tell me you wouldn't rather hear this than Mr. "G."

**musicalbodger** · 10-09-2010, 03:46 AM

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

I heard that Eric Clapton, Rod Stewart, Elton John, and Phil Collins were recording an album crooning Broadway show tunes together with Barry Manilow as music director.

Now that must be jazz

**keith** · 10-09-2010, 10:11 AM

I don't usually jump in on these threads because it's all just choice and why should it be a problem to me if you want the salmon instead of the steak? but here's my 2 cents.

I've always been a fan of Clapton but the more I get into jazz the more I listen for interesting variety and I don't really hear it here. The breathy vocals don't really bring any emotion of the tune to me and I'd agree that the solo work is the blues stuff again without adding to the tune so much ( more licks than an evocative solo relating to the melody ) Is it awful? Nope. To me just nothing special but to those that enjoy it, good for you for finding something I couldn't.

**fep** · 10-09-2010, 10:20 AM

I liked the recording. It's very charming in a grandfatherly way. It evokes emotion.

And there is no attempt by Clapton to show off, he's just playing some music... musically.

**woyvel** · 10-09-2010, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by fep

I liked the recording. It's very charming in a grandfatherly way. It evokes emotion.

And there is no attempt by Clapton to show off, he's just playing some music... musically.

Agree 100%

I've heard that Clapton say he gets rather intimidated by jazz guitarists with so much schooling behind them, and also heard him admit to feeling he had to compete with Jeff Beck. Nevertheless, you can't deny his rightful place in the modern history of our beloved instrument. You can't fault him for his music, his art, regardless of his lack of formal music education and his lack of a love for pure jazz, whatever that is.

I like the vocals but not necessarily the arrangement (especially the strings) and I do like the guitar solo. The solo is, to me, vintage Clapton blues take on a jazz classic. Good stuff. It kind of takes the jazz nut off automatic pilot as much as it takes the "Clapton is God" nut off his perch.

It does remind me a little of Rod Stewart's new stuff though... and Phil Collins', and Elton John's....

**fep** · 10-09-2010, 03:37 PM

I'm glad it was posted on this forum.

It has made think and reflect about...

how jazz can drive us to be theoritical and technical and to want super chops.

I'm thinking, stop all this practicing and just play some nice music or make a pretty sound.

When a bird sings does it worry how well it sings.

Don't flame me, this is a self reflection.

**mr. beaumont** · 10-09-2010, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by musicalbodger

Mr B. I'm feeling fine and there's no problem with my shirt thanks. This is a fascinating thread. The original poster (ECross) asked, "What do you think of it?" and I gave my reply. It appears to have upset a few people. Nowhere have I said I would rather listen to KennyG. I just can't see what this has to do with jazz.

I'm just razzing you a little, man. It's boring, but I don't find it nearly as offensive as Kenny G's "Dentist office Jazz." You didn't say you'd rather listen to Kenny, but you did say this was even worse!

As for what is it doing on a jazz forum--well, it's a song probably every jazz player has played done by a person who is from another "arena," if you will. The OP did originally put it up more as a "what do you think of this?" kind of post--unfortunately, things got a little haywire after some different opinions were shared.

It's definitely not anything worth getting our collective undies in a bunch over.

**musicalbodger** · 10-09-2010, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I'm just razzing you a little, man.

No offence taken, Mr B. I have a lot of respect for your opinions and posts. There just seem to be a few too many morons on this forum recently who appear to have little idea of what jazz is about. As you've probably realised by now, I don't suffer fools.....

To be honest, I can't remember ever hearing KennyG, but that's probably because my mind switches off when it's fed crap.

**billkath** · 10-09-2010, 07:17 PM

I like Kenny G. My Sax player,Vicky, won best musician last year in the Guinness competition here when we did "Songbird". She played clarinet,though-it sounded much better on clarinet.

**musicalbodger** · 10-09-2010, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by fep

When a bird sings does it worry how well it sings.

No, it just wants a mate.

And, fep, no one is concerned about super chops, or theoretical, or technical, these are all assumptions made by the insecure. Listen to Miles for simplicity in it's most effective form, Ben Webster for few notes, Kenny Burrell for groove — all done with few notes, but technical mastery. EC can go weep, he went for money and style, pity he missed out on the substance. (I didn't say substances — that's another story

)

That said, I'm still gagging for this Stewart/Collins/John/Clapton/Manilow project, I'm desperate for something to put me to sleep.

**max_power** · 10-09-2010, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by billkath

On a serious note-something I notice about a lot of jazzers-they seem more interested in playing for themselves or for the knowledgable than for the general public. There's acertain "snobbery" with lots of jazz people. Lots of you guys here will be from a background of doing non-jazz for parties and weddings- country, rock and roll stuff, to bring in the bacon? How many times have you done Brown Eyed Girl, even though you hate it? But-the audience loves it. Same as Clapton-I'm sure he did this song, this way, not because he couldn't play it with more chops, but because he knew the audience he intended it for were a Clapton audience, not a jazz audience.

You're missing the fact that Clapton is rich as hell. Do you really think he needs to play crowd-pleasing music to make money? The man is not only set for life in terms of cash, but his reputation is so strong he could record an album of himself pissing on a microphone and it would still make decent sales.

**billkath** · 10-10-2010, 06:14 AM

Originally Posted by max_power

You're missing the fact that Clapton is rich as hell. Do you really think he needs to play crowd-pleasing music to make money? The man is not only set for life in terms of cash, but his reputation is so strong he could record an album of himself pissing on a microphone and it would still make decent sales.

Ah-but don't you think that people can play crowd pleasing music because they like pleasing the crowd? Where the money is secondary, or tertiary?

**billkath** · 10-10-2010, 06:29 AM

Only playing blues. If he was capable of playing jazz, a far more demanding genre, both technically and intellectually, I'm sure you'd have heard.

Why would we have heard? Maybe he doesn't play jazz because he thinks it's shite? Someone that adept at blues, pop and rock, on both acoustic and electric guitar, would certainly be technically proficient enough to knock out some jazz riffs if he wanted to. Jazz is only technically and intellectually demanding if you want to look at it in a certain way. Is Dixie technically and intellectually demanding? Or more demanding than classical or Layla?
I don't know, Bodge, but perhaps a lot of people make things seem more technically difficult than they actually are. Like-"play mixo with a sharp 11 and then back to a dorian, then a 13 arpeggio" etc, when others might say- "play something that sounds good".

That's great that she won. What does it matter what she played?

Ouch!

**musicalbodger** · 10-10-2010, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by billkath

Why would we have heard? ...... Is Dixie technically and intellectually demanding? Or more demanding than classical or Layla?
I don't know, Bodge, but perhaps a lot of people make things seem more technically difficult than they actually are. Like-"play mixo with a sharp 11 and then back to a dorian, then a 13 arpeggio" etc, when others might say- "play something that sounds good".

Ouch!

You would have heard it in his playing and singing. Once it's in you, it's in you and it shows.
As for Dixie, that's a 90 year old music form. I meant technical in the facility not the theory. You have to work very hard to get the chops to play jazz (meaning improvising coherently and being able to improvise without too many limitations caused by lack of skill). As for your "play something that sounds good", I couldn't agree with you more. I've often jumped in on threads when I feel people are getting too tied up in the minutiae of theory and forgetting what music is all about. Much to some people's annoyance.

**billkath** · 10-10-2010, 07:08 AM

I just don't know why this isn't considered jazz.

**musicalbodger** · 10-10-2010, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by billkath

I just don't know why this isn't considered jazz.

Probably because it ain't. It's just a guy singing a song with an improvised(?) sax solo. It's harmonically boring, the singing, to my ear, is tedious and unemotional (and flat) and EC's playing is no better than mediocre. I will say again, if it wasn't EC no one would rate it above mediocre. Sorry, Bill, I'm not trying to be argumentative, it's just how I see (hear) things.