Martin Taylor

**christianm77** · 03-22-2020, 11:07 AM

A lot of jazz guitarists don’t really go for Martin. There’s a number of reasons for this. But in the end he’s kind of ended up doing his own thing quite separate from the majority of jazz players.

**QAman** · 03-22-2020, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

A lot of jazz guitarists don’t really go for Martin. There’s a number of reasons for this. But in the end he’s kind of ended up doing his own thing quite separate from the majority of jazz players.

This might be due to the fact most jazz guitarist use a pick.
Martins style is mainly fingerstyle - and contrapuntal in nature - requiring a unique set of skills. I play both fingerstyle and with a pick and both styles require tremendous committment to achieve good results.

Also, perhaps in a jazz club setting, where most guys plug into an amp, .....a pick is likely a better choice.

Tuck Andress is another phenomenal player - and unfortunately I don't see him mentioned much on this forum.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

**dot75** · 03-22-2020, 01:27 PM

He's said himself that he couldn't get a gig after 10 years touring with Stefane Grappelli. That music wasn't taken seriously.

He was on the way to hand over his last guitar to the buyer when he pulled over & decided to try & get solo gigs....

Seems to be working out OK.

**christianm77** · 03-22-2020, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by QAman

This might be due to the fact most jazz guitarist use a pick.
Martins style is mainly fingerstyle - and contrapuntal in nature - requiring a unique set of skills. I play both fingerstyle and with a pick and both styles require tremendous committment to achieve good results.

Also, perhaps in a jazz club setting, where most guys plug into an amp, .....a pick is likely a better choice.

Tuck Andress is another phenomenal player - and unfortunately I don't see him mentioned much on this forum.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

Well the players who have been sniffy about him

- he doesn't really improvise. A lot his stuff is kind of worked out
That could also be said of Louis Armstrong and Oscar Peterson, so not really a problem in my eyes. It's also very true of current wunderkind Pasquale Grasso's head arrangements.
- his style is pretty traditional
Very much mainstream jazz, again I don't see this as a problem. Again, people are into Pasqaule now, so hey.
- the fingerstyle thing
I think most players, me included, aren't interested in going down the finger style route, so that kind of means Taylor isn't going to be a direct influence for many.

Interestingly, the people I hear talking about Martin Taylor the most are not guitar players. So I guess, that is a GOOD thing haha.

From my own perspective, whenever I hear Martin I'm just stunned at the level of groove, completeness, virtuosity and musicality in his playing. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that. He is the Oscar Peterson of the guitar IMO.

Tuck is great too. I haven't listened to him for years.

Anyway, seems like a good time to work on my solo playing, not that I'll have a whole heap of time to practice as I'll be looking after my little one a lot. Guitarist with no gigs = childcare.

**deacon Mark** · 03-22-2020, 04:17 PM

Tuck Andress plays great but his sound does not grab me and I just don't find myself wanting to listen that much. I know he has great chops but just not my thing.

**JazzNote** · 03-22-2020, 06:52 PM

I first saw Martin Tayler in the eighties in a club in Zürich Switzerland and i believe at that time he played also with a pick, not just fingerstyle. I recorded almost the whole gig onto a cassette tape with a sony professional walkman - still have it here in the drawer, will check it out and maybe transfer to digital. I think Martin was playing a Barker and i remember especially well his solo version of Cherokee which he did at breathtaking tempo while the rhythm section was pausing. An yes, it was there already: Bass AND Chords AND Melody. A few years ago a friend of mine found out that Martin's birthday is on the same day as mine - same year too.

**medblues** · 03-23-2020, 02:25 PM

I got the Peerless archtop he endorsed before Fibonacci (and played in the above two videos) from Doc Dosco. I really like the guitar (easy short scale wide nut for fingerstyle and all solid woods with great craftsmanship) and my playing needs ten years of hard practice to get to his level (if ever).

**Michael Neverisky** · 03-23-2020, 05:24 PM

Never had the opportunity to hear Martin in concert, but I do appreciate his mastery and musicianship. My only interaction with him was via video exchange at ArtistWorks where I found him to be a most congenial gent.

**AndyV** · 03-23-2020, 05:25 PM

I saw Martin play a gig with the flu and he was better than 90% of players who are feeling terrific. I took online lessons with Martin for a few months and he's a kind, gifted and perceptive teacher. I was mostly trying to apply his methods to lap steel but just didn't have the time and motivation to put in the necessary effort at that time. I remember him very fondly though as both a musician and a stellar person.

**sgosnell** · 03-23-2020, 10:56 PM

My favorite Taylor recordings are the ones he did with David Grisman - the two Tone Poems albums and the jazz quartet album with bass and drums, "I'm Beginning To See The Light". For "Tone Poems" they used very old vintage instruments - guitars, mandolins, mandolas, mandocellos, etc. The liner notes are really interesting, detailing the instruments used on each tune. Both are monster players.

**Howzabopping** · 03-23-2020, 11:25 PM

What an amazing player, thanks OP for bringing him to my attention!

With that name, one imagines that becoming a monster guitarist would be a foregone conclusion. Like being named Ovation Ibanez or something like that.

**Jonah** · 03-24-2020, 03:05 AM

There was Tuck also mentioned

I learnt a lot from both .. there were periods when I specially listened and picked ideas from Tuck and from Martin's records... I should admit - short periods...

They are both phenomela technically and skill-wise... but for me the issue with Tuck is taht he is so much focused on guitar as an equipment - I do not know how to saty it better - it is in his playing how much he investigated guitar as a sort of technical gear... which is great and can give you benefits... but at the end of the day not that important for me.

Martin is extremly good of course.. but Ifor me he is always a bit too much in HIS comfort zone, yes this zone is expanded very broadly for him)))
But still for me it is sweet and pleasent...

Some time ago I put two strange comparisons Sco and Bobby Broom and Martin's playing of the same tune...
Martin in both cases has very good tone, clean technique and smoothely elaborated arrangement added with very nive impros.

Sofield is poorly recorded with - supposedly - uncomfortable for him nylon string guitar
Bobby Broom plays at home acoustically on ovciously electric archtop with poor mic and he does not seem to play impro even...

And still I prefer those performances over MArtin's renditions... there is some rwaness (not in record quality) in musical approach ... some feeling that they really take chances (even if formally this is pre-composed), that they do choices write there and write now and I accompany then in that - a bit risky - journey...
For me this is the most crucial part of jazz -- that risky challenge of taking decision right now - not knowing what's next...

I do not feel that in Martin's playing
... though I get that listening to that and especially playing may be so joyful!!!

For me (as a musican) very important thing about Martin is that he teaches me some stability))))
Yes, some maybe rudimental - but reliable and fundamental things...
There are lots of players in jazz that teach instability, insecurity, risk, chances... but these things are good when you know where the ground is to push from it for a jump. Martin knows the landscape perfectly - you can follow him and choose what is good for you.

Again I really enjoy some of Martin's recordings just as a listner too! (and mys wife and kids even more)))
I like him most in various duos... he compliments the other player so tastefully!

first Scofield plays solo Georgia on My Mind

then Martin

the Bobby Broom plays Just Once

and then Martin

**QAman** · 03-24-2020, 04:33 AM

I think what really impresses me about Martin’s playing - is his grasp on contrapuntal / polyphonic movement. This is no easy task , and anyone working on his arrangements realizes this quickly. He makes it look real easy ... but it’s not.

Tuck has this same talent - and incorporates a lot of Wes Montgomery influences in his playing.

**Jonah** · 03-24-2020, 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by QAman

I think what really impresses me about Martin’s playing - is his grasp on contrapuntal / polyphonic movement. This is no easy task , and anyone working on his arrangements realizes this quickly. He makes it look real easy ... but it’s not.

Tuck has this same talent - and incorporates a lot of Wes Montgomery influences in his playing.

it is great skill really... especially that smooth as he does it.

But it is achievable. (I mean ias a skill t is easier to achieve imho than for example Sco's phrasing)))
Maybe it will not be so silky smooth as Martin does it, but still...

I do not practice that on guitar to be honest... (I wish I would but I have to choose what to use.. not so much time to practice all)
but I do that on lute in baroque style but also not that fluently - we should admit that these instruments are tricky for that kind of playing and it requires special dedication and some routines and pattens practicing to develope the skills (on keyboards it just comes out as much more natural process).

but what he does has some systematic approach behind it - I can somehow hear it beind his playing.
It is basically the same thing that Ted Green did or Tim Lerch or Steve Herberman do - the basic thing is the same, and it is achievable... in real music they just use it each in his own way..

**dot75** · 03-24-2020, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by Jonah

but Ifor me he is always a bit too much in HIS comfort zone, yes this zone is expanded very broadly for him)))
But still for me it is sweet and pleasent...

I think that's true when he plays solo....I've seen him 3 or 4 times in that setting & it's very enjoyable rather than exciting - although the first time I heard him play 'I got Rhythm' was a blast, not sure he does that anymore.

He stretches out more when I've heard him play with others.

I think he's got a different audience, the last time I saw him play solo the person next to said 'you're in for a treat if you haven't seen him before - this is my third time' I said I'd seen him a few times & was a fan, we were chatting & I mentioned that I'd first heard him at a Joe Pass gig, blank looks , 'who's that'....not your typical jazz guitar fan

**AKA** · 03-24-2020, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by sgosnell

My favorite Taylor recordings are the ones he did with David Grisman - the two Tone Poems albums and the jazz quartet album with bass and drums, "I'm Beginning To See The Light". For "Tone Poems" they used very old vintage instruments - guitars, mandolins, mandolas, mandocellos, etc. The liner notes are really interesting, detailing the instruments used on each tune. Both are monster players.

I’m a big fan of both players. First saw Grisman with Tony Rice and others doing “Dawg Music” at Oberlin College in the early 80’s. What a special performance! I sat just feet away from Taylor years ago for 2 sets of mind-blowing playing at Yoshis in Oakland. A few years later I was front and center at Yoshis for a show featuring Grisman and Taylor performing together. Shockingly, for me, the performance was a dud. I still can’t understand why I found the performance so uninspiring.

I’ve seen Tuck perform with his wife Patty at Yoshis several times - typically their annual Thanksgiving holiday performance. I’d suggest that, as with most performers, if you’ve not experienced him in a live setting you miss a lot of what makes his playing special. In example, concerns about his tone are diminished in that context. Great tone with his L5.

Would love to try the Taylor-Grisman performance again.

AKA

**Jonah** · 03-30-2020, 04:38 AM

Now during 'isolation' martin uploads videos... and it is interesting that I love them more than those that I heard on his solo album...

Especially Georgia whic seemed to have really improvisatory feeling

But on Someday My Prince Will Come I still hear that he builds up around predetermined things too much.. . I do not know how to explain it really... his vocabulary is huge but i still hear a vocabulary and a 'story' nicely put together...
Rather than a challenging improvized tale whene the stroy teller does not know where it would lead him
(Though Martin himself says he does not know how it is going to be.. that is not quite what i mean)

**grahambop** · 03-30-2020, 02:22 PM

A couple of days ago Martin posted a video on Facebook of him playing a concert outside his house in Scotland for all his neighbours, during the current lockdown. Lucky them!

(the next day he posted one of his neighbour getting his own back with the bagpipes!)

**xavierbarcelo** · 03-30-2020, 04:47 PM

I saw him a long time ago at a Working men’s club in Sheffield. He was mesmerising! I’m enrolled in his online guitar school and I think that he’s amazing. His tone is magnificent and his ability with his interwoven lines just out of this world. I agree that his Georgia from some days ago it’s got a sense of urgency somewhat lacking in some of his recordings. I do think, though, that he’s been accused of playing prearranged stuff and, after having listened to him quite a bit, I don’t think it’s really fair. What seems to me is that he is basically a melodist, something that in this jazz world totally obsessed with complexity and pretentiousness, it’s a big no-no. In my view, he bases his playing on mostly simple stuff, individually, which gets extremely complex by combination, if that makes any sense.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

**DjangoBG** · 04-06-2020, 04:30 AM

Love his sound back in a days when he was more into classic archtop jazz with flats...

... great lessons here by the way

**QAman** · 05-19-2020, 07:20 PM

Great video with Martin and Tommy E.

**md54** · 05-20-2020, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

A lot of jazz guitarists don’t really go for Martin. There’s a number of reasons for this. But in the end he’s kind of ended up doing his own thing quite separate from the majority of jazz players.

Yes. I’ve heard several noted UK players rubbish Martin’s playing. It’s jealousy. Pure and simple.
They say that he’s not improvising but regurgitating pre rehearsed arrangements. As if!!

**gtrplrfla** · 05-20-2020, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by md54

Yes. I’ve heard several noted UK players rubbish Martin’s playing. It’s jealousy. Pure and simple.
They say that he’s not improvising but regurgitating pre rehearsed arrangements. As if!!

That's quite true and similar to many criticisms of Johnny Smith many years ago . Be it envy or sour grapes, both guitarists
continually displayed finesse, good taste and pre-arranged or not , I'm sure many would wish for such skills !