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Curious of how guitarists take Miles recording career, I think his best work was without a guitarist, but then again...
1. Kind Of Blue ( pretty obvious)
2. Bitches Brew
3. Live at the (anywhere with the quintet from heaven, Tony Williams was the best drummer Miles ever had)
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04-29-2015 07:04 AM
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1-my funny valentine
2-we want miles
3-birth of the cool
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Somethin' Else Cannonball Adderley
Live At The Plugged Nickel
In Person Friday and Saturday Nights at the Blackhawk complete
Three off the beaten track releases that show Miles at home either live, or with an unusual band. Live in Stockholm 1960 is also in there too. Each of these has Miles in a different light because of an extraordinary situation.
David
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Sorcerer
In A Silent Way
Dark Magus
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We Want Miles
Tutu
Kind of Blue
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Kind of Blue
The Definitive Miles Davis on Prestige (the 2 disc set, so this counts as two.)
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Can't choose only 3, it's impossible!
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It is a collection of session outtakes, but I like the range on Circle in the Round.
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Time to run and duck (but I'll go ahead, anyway)
I like the 4 albums he did in the 50's Workin'; Steamin', Cookin' and I forget the other one. I enjoy Kind of Blue but it's not a religious experience, at least to me: If it gets people listening to jazz, I guess that's good. I enjoy Porgy and Bess. Miles is a GREAT ballad player. He has taste---and the courage to self-edit his playing.
But, the truth is, at least for me, I'd rather listen to Louis A., Roy E., Dizzy, Clifford B., Lee Morgan, Freddie Hubbard, and maybe some old Donald Byrd.
I think Miles D. is more important as a marketing phenomenon than a musical one. Everyone has heard the line--"Oh, he changed music 3 or 4 times." Try to parse out the truth from the Miles myth. "Complete Birth of the Cool" wasn't even released as an album--until 3-4 years after it was recorded--some of the singles were released. Gil Evans had done similar arrangements for Claude Thornhill, and Gerry Mulligan was the one who insisted on Lee Konitz for sax. And plenty of cool jazz was already around--so he hardly invented the stuff. (All discussed in Miles' autobiography---well worth reading...he can't help revealing himself, and it is not always a pretty picture.)
As far as Bitches Brew, when I learned that it was pasted together from separate studio takes, it didn't surprise me. At the time it was done, Miles was scared to death of becoming irrelevant. Rock had already become big, and he was trying to latch onto the next big thing. He was well-known and so when he "went electric" it was, per se, something that generated a lot of comment/discussion, and it sold a LOT of records. Does that mean it was good? I find it unlistenable. Much rather listen to Return to Forever, or Weather Report.
He also had a habit of running down other players and disparaging them---Monk; Coltrane, and Bill Evans, among others. And then there is the army of sidemen--about 100 in ten yrs., who filtered through his groups---maybe they were lousy (unlikely), lacked chemistry (entirely possible), had bad habits (possible, as an ex-junkie, I can understand his desire to avoid smack), wanted steadier work or couldn't commit to one group (common in the jazz world, I think, where steady work is not that common). But, maybe the Emperor Miles had fewer clothes on and some of these guys realized this and wouldn't put up with him. The one player he would never bad mouth was Dizzy---because this would be like Robin bad-mouthing Batman.
His 60's supergroup had amazing talent: These guys (Herbie H., Wayne S., Ron C., and Tony W.) had the good sense to know that hooking up with Miles gave them instant PRESENCE in the marketplace. Miles D. does acknowledge in his book that they were great talents. They played great with him, and later played great without him. (Miles did resent Herbie H.'s success with the Headhunters album).
There is a curious kind of self-validating tautology in hero worship and celebrity creation---the public has to validate its "own" judgment, by insisting that the stars it has created, are really special to begin with. Maybe we're just looking in the mirror, and falling in love with our own previous judgment.
I own probably a dozen CD's and/or albums of Miles D. He was a major artist and can't be ignored: That would be like being a baseball fan and ignoring that franchise in New York, The New York Highlanders, later known as the Yankees. But like the Yankees, there are plenty of other teams deserving of attention, which maybe don't get the recognition that the Bronx Bombers do.Last edited by goldenwave77; 04-29-2015 at 10:49 AM. Reason: separate paragraphs
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The thing you miss, goldenwave, it that Miles was THE trendsetter. Who does things "first" is of little matter, when Miles did them, they were cool, and folks followed. Miles made you a star if you played with him. Miles was THE man.
Oh, the other 50's record is "Relaxin'" actually my favorite of the bunch.Last edited by mr. beaumont; 04-29-2015 at 11:23 AM.
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Walkin'
Filles de Kilimanjaro
Kind of Blue
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Yes, a trendsetter...courtesy of George Avakian, Clive Davis, and the other corp. mktg. people at the big record label (CBS). He could be sold---he had potential star quality...photographed well...but what does this have to do with music?
Again---the ability to get people to open their wallets and buy something they might not otherwise is not to be dismissed. He gave a jump start to some careers. But I have a lot more admiration for Albert Lyon (sp. ?!), who ran Blue Note Records for years, on a shoestring, and who I think actually treated musicians pretty fairly, as opposed to the usual chicanery. The body of work that was produced under Blue Note is amazing, and varied, and extensive, and very high quality.
Perhaps I am letting my dislike for Miles D. as a person get in the way. But Duke Ellington was a very stylish guy...and the contrast between him...dying in debt and owing hundreds of thousands to the IRS, but still playing and composing, almost to the end....and Miles retiring to his brownstone castle on the Upper West Side, like Charles Foster Kane or Howard Hughes, where he lays down his horn for 5 yrs. and anesthesizes himself with various drugs, is very stark. (Yes, he roused himself for a final hurrah, when he tried to hook up with Prince and Michael Jackson.)
Anyway, we're getting off topic here. But just ask yourself the question, if Miles hadn't been around, how different would the musical history/development been? I think the answer is---not all that different. He was VERY attuned to the next big thing, and had a certain standing, and attempted to ride/catch the next big wave, and sometimes it worked, and sometimes it didn't. The electric/fusion stuff would have happened anyway...Miles D. was a participant in bebop--but hardly the originator--or the best at it, and the cool stuff was around anyway.
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I love Nefertiti.
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Boppers choice,
1. Collectors Items.
2.Dig.
3.Bag's Groove.
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I like Miles more than just about anybody, that's all there is to it as far as I'm concerned.
Originally Posted by goldenwave77
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Anyone said Miles Smiles yet?
Just for the version of Footprints, if nothing else.
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I think Sonny Rollins nailed it when he said that for him the thing that most set Miles apart wasn't so much that he pioneered several jazz genres, it's that he had developed a remarkable and unique sort of "counter style" that played against the other musicians in whatever genre he was playing in at the time.
I'll pick one from each decade...
50s: 'Round About Midnight
60's: In Person at the Black Hawk or Live at the Plugged Nickel
70's: Pangea and Agharta (recorded on same day so I consider them a set)
That's my favorite of the In' series too. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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"I like Miles more than just about anybody, that's all there is to it as far as I'm concerned."
Well, fair enough, if it is the music that is what you're responding to.
It is the image-manufacturing I object to. You know the kind of thing that made Bill Cosby say "You had to listen to Miles...because he was the definition of cool..." It was a schtick....a contrived thing that a lot of people bought into...just like this "I was always seeking to change....to explore as an artist" schtick....that he came up with...after bop died...after his attempt at cool didn't take off like he hoped it would, and after jazz was in danger of becoming irrelevant to a younger generation of non-fans in the mid-60's.
As I've said, he is a great ballad player, and some of his groups were great, and his ability to self-edit his playing, is something a lot of note-y players could learn from.
But as far as trumpet players, he is way down on my list...behind the aforementioned Louis A., Dizzy, Clifford B., Lee Morgan, Freddie Hubbard, Roy E, Donald B., and probably Wynton Marsalis...so anyway I've noted the albums I like by my 9th most favorite trumpet player.
But it is a big world, and I still follow the Yankees, though lately I'm wearing Tigers cap, due to the Detroit-based gf.
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Oddly enough, that IS what I'm interested in, rather than his clothes, car, chicks, etc etc! Originally Posted by goldenwave77
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Is there a better ballad player ? Originally Posted by grahambop
I haven't heard one yet ...
summertime (off Porgy and Bess)
It never entered my mind
blue in green
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Originally Posted by grahambop
Right, but you probably were aware that he drove a yellow Ferrari, that he was married to Cicely Tyson and had a number of other beautiful women---some of whom were featured on his record covers, that he dressed for a while in well-tailored suits from Brooks Brothers, and that he was "cool" or cold to his audiences....they are all part of his "star-dom" and his image. This kind of stuff was mentioned in press releases or on liner notes, I believe.
Quick, without thinking about it....what kind of car did Clark Terry drive?! I don't think anyone knows, or cares. I'm not sure if he even owned an automobile. Clark Terry is kind of an avuncular, serious sort of modest chap, who is extremely well-respected by other trumpeters, and who, in fact, taught Miles D. a thing or two back in St. Louis....a musician's musician. But he was not a "star" in the same sort of way, esp. to the non-musician public.
It's a little like saying "I liked the Beatles music, even if they did a lot of drugs for a while." It was part of their public persona.
No more for me---I've made my points: I just have a healthy distrust of hero worship. I probably need to go put on some vinyl to remember why I have a dozen Miles D. albums.Last edited by goldenwave77; 04-29-2015 at 05:10 PM.
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Might be a good idea. You seem awfully concerned with a bunch of stuff that doesn't matter.
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I don't give a **** about any of that B.S. I just love the music, same as all the jazz musicians who rate Miles highly. Of course I know all about his image, I have read all the books. It isn't important to me. Originally Posted by goldenwave77
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As Wes is to many individual guitarists, so is Miles to the individual. For me Miles is about so many of those early Sunday mornings of my childhood hearing LP's spinning from a Garrard record player as Dad began his day...and that muted horn of Miles weaving the foundations of my ear as I became entranced while getting lost into some music I'd later learn was called jazz.
Back to Miles' music, and or recordings...
Old Folks - I can't get enough of this recording
So What
Round Midnight
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I love that he is his own man, his own sound, his own style. The way he fused his bands together, providing space for shredders like Coltrane and Hancock and he could with a touch of magic bring their thing together with the head. He could be the cream, the cake or the icing, whatever was required in the moment. He clearly really listened to the band and served the music. You know who it is from the first note and it sounds amazing.
Top 3 for my ears:
Kind of Blue
Relaxin
Ascensour Pour L'Echafaud
The public perception thing is fascinating. Scofield, Ford, Hancock so many others seem to speak very highly of him.
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