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I have to say I would think Benson in that context. Benson has got all the rabble rousing licks and that deep deep groove soaked in playing dance music with baddest cats ever. PG's a very different player in a very different environment.
Originally Posted by Groyniad
But Benson is an outlier even in his own era in terms of groove and swing. So it's not a fair contest.Last edited by christianm77; 01-12-2017 at 04:55 PM.
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01-12-2017 04:38 PM
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More recently, my wife and I were in a marriage counselling programme (oh for the days of gfs!). Couples were asked to act out a scene from earlier in the day, with the husband and wife pretending to be each other. Another couple did one about driving to the event: Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Husband (playing wife), clicking through iPod: "flamenco ... <click> flamenco ... <click> flamenco ... <click>"
Wife (playing husband, drolly): "It's ... ah ... all flamenco"
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I'll report back with her complete dismissal of Grasso this evening.
Things she's said about other favorites:
Jim Hall: Is this old? It sounds old.
Jimmy Smith: Sounds like 1960's game show music
Pat Metheny: I know this! They played this while I got my root canal
and my favorite:
Bitches Brew: Are you mad at me about something?
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Wow. Magic played Baseball too? Originally Posted by christianm77
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No, that was Dave Winfield. Drafted into 3 professional sports.
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I wonder how old you have to be to dis on contemporary music.
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It's not age--its a question of what you've listened to.
I have a kid who lives underneath me whose primary non-working activity is playing video games (and bellowing in frustration). Guess what---everything he listens to has the same deadening beat to it....just pounding.
(I really feel like walking downstairs, bringing him upstairs, and putting on "Take the A Train" with one of my old LP's, and blasting it loudly, to prove to him, that loud music is not bad....but bad, loud music....stuff that has no groove to it, is bad.) Maybe I'll just let him borrow my Motown box set for a month, and ask him to just listen....observe there is something called melody, also lyrics that don't fall, stressed, on the wrong, vocal inflection.
I think Metheny is putting down anyone who might appeal to his thing....Grasso, for the most part, is not going to be stealing many fans from Metheny. I think Grasso appeals to jazz guitar qua guitar enthusiasts and serious lovers of bebop.
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I think PM's main point is that everyone thinks his distinctive sound relies on chorus effects but that he hates chorus and rather a large part of his sound is using delays (lexicon originally) with multiple amps. See also here: Pat Metheny : Question & Answer Originally Posted by NSJ
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My wife refers to the vast majority of jazz as "diddly music". Originally Posted by goldenwave77
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Originally Posted by pkirk
I've seen Michael Jordan play baseball
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Yah you Americans and your weird sports. Baseball's the one with the oval ball and the big tuning forks, right?
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About 24 if the London scene is anything to go by Originally Posted by gggomez
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A sticky wicket, I say. Stumped at stumps! Originally Posted by christianm77
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I know, friggin' goofy if you ask me, wanting to finish a game in ONE day. Originally Posted by christianm77
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Nah....its the manly version of cricket. You actually have to use your body properly to swing a baseball bat, and hit the ball well. Originally Posted by christianm77
Not like cricket, where a handsy swing gets the job done. And the game doesn't take a friggin' week to play.
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Man, I've got no more patience for this misplaced hyperbole. If we must use terms like "best" then playing the world's best bebop qualifies him as solely the world's best bebop player. Can he play heartbreaking Celtic melodies like Martin Simpson? Can he play Surfer Girl like Bill Frisell in a way that turns it into a unique poetic statement in jazz? Can he play just one chord with the perfect rhythm and conviction that speaks to the blues of the human condition? THe goal posts he moved are way too close together. There can be great beauty in pure bebop but there are millions of equally beautiful and valid colors in the palette.Who else has mastered the instrument to that level? I can't think of anyone. For sheer playing, sound, fluency, technique, etc etc he has completely moved the goal posts.
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Grosso!
Hello, Oxford? New exclamations & adjectives, please.
In other news, the cockroach lobby is way pi--ed-off.
Oxford, make those superlatives, please.Last edited by rabbit; 01-12-2017 at 10:02 PM.
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I don't think I've communicated the sense of what I meant. Originally Posted by AndyV
Objectively - he is up there as a guitar player. He has dominated the instrument above and beyond anything I have heard before in the area of straight jazz guitar.
Like you I would rather listen to Martin Simpson and Bill Frisell - they are musicians - no - artists on guitar, they use it for expression in a very personal way. Even in bop and straight jazz guitar there are players I prefer, living and dead, for this reason.
But I recognise his guitaristic achievement and it is frankly fucking extraordinary. And he is, what, mid 20's?
(I'm not really into Holdsworth BTW.)Last edited by christianm77; 01-12-2017 at 10:33 PM.
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It's unfair of me to characterise PG's playing as purely a guitar playing thing. He has an amazing command of bop language, and can improvise freely in the idiom without ever playing licks. That's pretty unusual too.
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Oh man, my wife on Grasso:
Wow, he's really good. What does he sound like if he plays a song?
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Originally Posted by christianm77
I don't mind you taking shots at Americans but baseball is sacrosanct.
Polo, Rounders, Footy, Cricket. Brits; sheesh!
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christianm77:
Thanks for the clarification. His command of the bebop language and fluidity on the instrument is amazing.
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Yeah but when we play rounders and rugby we don't feel the need to wear armour. Originally Posted by A. Kingstone
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When I saw Chris Potter recently, after 90 minutes of relentlessness, all I could muster at the end of it all was to say "Well, I think I've just heard the most difficult saxophone playing I've ever heard, flawless, unmatched technique and a lexicon of ideas that were mostly alien to me. I think the bar has just been raised...."
And then a breath or two later I think I added something like: " ... but I never want to hear that again, and I need to get home right now and listen to some Dexter Gordon!"....
Not saying' PG's playing sounds "alien", but the rest of it kinda applies...
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Grasso DOES have great bebop phrasing. That's what makes his music so listenable to the folks on this forum. Now, go back and re-listen to your Jimmy Raney and Joe Pass recordings. Those guys, too, had impeccable bebop phrasing on the guitar--which IS rather uncommon.
My wife, a professional musician, can pick Joe Pass out in a handful of notes, due to his phrasing and sense of time. It doesn't matter what his tone is (he used different guitars/amps and was kind of indifferent to his sound). She always points out to me that "that was THE guy." I would have to agree, based upon Pass' lines.
I hear in Grasso a lot of the same ideas. To be sure, Grasso has the whole toolkit. However, when you hear a guitarist take a few choruses of the blues you can tell what's going on. Grasso, when he plays a blues, really reminds me of Joe Pass. They are both stone cold bop killers.
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