Charlie Parker Edgard Varese

[Durban]

Boy and girls Edgard Varese i know some here will know what this about and many wont, anyway

i first became aware of varese in 1971 but only heard his works in 1976. It is not Jazz, perhaps it is who know? Parker was an absolute fan and tried to meet Varese many times here is something i thought rather interesting, Charlie passed before Modal Shorter Non-Function Davis Plugged Nickel elongated form No changes etc one can only imagine what he might have been into. But having said that he may not have been into anything..... Dear Barry H. he does what he does, no modal Post bop I love his playing he is one of my faves.

Varese

Charlie Parker used to follow Varèse round the streets of Greenwich Village, trying to pluck up courage to ask him for composition lessons. Eventually, he found the nerve. "He stopped by my place a number of times," said Varèse. "He'd come in and exclaim, 'Take me as you would a baby and teach me music. I only write one voice. I want to have a structure. I want to write orchestral scores.'" Varèse, who himself learned many things from jazz musicians, never got to teach the great man to write orchestral scores. He went to Paris to work on his piece Déserts, and Parker was dead from a heroin overdose by the time he returned to New York.





link

Edgard Varese: in wait for the future | Music | The Guardian


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[neatomic]

yeah man...i have writ about varese's influence on charlie parker and frank zappa many times on this forum...

bird loved contemporary classical composers varese and bela bartok!...why i always thought it a shame that when they finally gave him the chance to record with strings..they gave him mitch miller...and his soppy arrangements...ugh...poor bird

zappa was varese fan as a teen...varese's percussion pieces were huge influence on him throughout his career...

here's bird on varese...(from a transcript of a great radio interview, that's online to hear)

Throughout his career, Charlie Parker publicly acknowledged his admiration for Varese, who was his Greenwich Village neighbor. “I had the pleasure of meeting Edgar Varese,” he once said on Boston radio, “The French composer. He was very nice to me. He’s willing to teach me. He wants to compose something for me.”

cheers

[sgcim]

Jimmy Raney was another one who was wild about 20th Century classical music. He didn't just listen to it; he studied classical composition with American contemporary composer, Hall Overton, and then wrote
"Suite For Guitar Quintet"
Gene Orloff, Violin
Walter Trampler, Viola
Charles McCracken, Cello
Peter Ind, Bass
Nick Stabulas, Drums
The first part of the five part Suite is called "Homage To Bartok".
It was recorded 9/5/1957, and is only available AFAIK on "Jimmy Raney Strings and Swings" on vinyl on the Muse record label. I asked Jon Raney when it was going to come out on CD, and back then he said probably never, due to an extremely complicated rights situation. There are snippets on youtube, but I don't know if anyone's put the whole suite on YT yet.

[neatomic]

makes perfect sense as jimmy raney was probably greatest guitar disciple of bird...& around similar crowd & influences...

whole lp...but side A- is the bartok inspired

cheers

[rictroll]

And Varese was apparently interested in jazz/improvisation. Here's an oddity:

[Durban]

Thanks all, a lot i did not know, i am interested in Varese i have his albums, i wont pretend i listen frequently, but love the percussion and Timbre aspects, mindblowingly modern for the time. When i remember,


Imagine that played on UK Radio One or USA equivalent station

[neatomic]

sgcim, sagely brought up another powerhouse-hall overton...who worked with raney, getz and monk as well as composing his own modern classical pieces..and teaching at julliard...where one of his students was steve reich...

an obscure great

Hall Overton - Sonata for Cello & Piano (1960)...with cellist charles mccraken..who also appears on the raney ^

cheers

[sgcim]

makes perfect sense as jimmy raney was probably greatest guitar disciple of bird...& around similar crowd & influences...

whole lp...but side A- is the bartok inspired

cheers

I emailed Jon Raney about this when I posted above. I don't know how he feels about something like this, but he's told me he doesn't like these jerks that are putting records out, like the bootleg Live at Bradley's album, which was done by some idiot with a hidden recorder.
The Raney family doesn't receive a cent of royalties for albums like that.

[neatomic]

well, the strings and swings lp was a muse release...they were a legit label...and remember that album came out in the 70's...and the bartok quintet side A was recorded in the 50's!!...so that piece had been in nowheresville for near 20 years!!! kudos to muse for rescuing it!!

that legit muse lp has never been reissued...no cd release ever...hasn't been available near 50 years!!...so...


cheers

[wintermoon]

I've had a copy for many yrs and never thought it was a particularly hard one to find, but maybe in a place like NY it is.

[JessyK]

Actually, Charlie Parker did get lessons from Varese. According to my good friend and business partner, Bob Mover who used to go to Pietro Carbón's string repair shop on 49 McDugal Street in the early 1970s, he spoke to Carbón. Pietro told him that Bob reminded him of Charlie Parker who also came to his repair shop. Carbón later introduced Varese to Charlie, when Parker performed at Birdland.

[joelf]

Boy and girls Edgard Varese i know some here will know what this about and many wont, anyway

i first became aware of varese in 1971 but only heard his works in 1976. It is not Jazz, perhaps it is who know? Parker was an absolute fan and tried to meet Varese many times here is something i thought rather interesting, Charlie passed before Modal Shorter Non-Function Davis Plugged Nickel elongated form No changes etc one can only imagine what he might have been into. But having said that he may not have been into anything..... Dear Barry H. he does what he does, no modal Post bop I love his playing he is one of my faves.

Varese

Charlie Parker used to follow Varèse round the streets of Greenwich Village, trying to pluck up courage to ask him for composition lessons. Eventually, he found the nerve. "He stopped by my place a number of times," said Varèse. "He'd come in and exclaim, 'Take me as you would a baby and teach me music. I only write one voice. I want to have a structure. I want to write orchestral scores.'" Varèse, who himself learned many things from jazz musicians, never got to teach the great man to write orchestral scores. He went to Paris to work on his piece Déserts, and Parker was dead from a heroin overdose by the time he returned to New York.





link

Edgard Varese: in wait for the future | Music | The Guardian


.

Fine post that I much enjoyed reading, but I must correct: Charlie Parker did NOT die of a heroin overdose. Sadly, he had so many things wrong with him after some years of physical decline that his general health was that of a much older man. The cause on the death certificate was 'lobar pneumonia', just one of many maladies.

But his music will live forever...

[joelf]

makes perfect sense as jimmy raney was probably greatest guitar disciple of bird...& around similar crowd & influences...

whole lp...but side A- is the bartok inspired

cheers

Yes, I've had and treasured that recording on LP for close to 50 years. The music is great, though one senses it was perhaps done hastily. Jimmy's guitar and the strings are not quite in tune. More rehearsal time would have fixed that. Jimmy's writing and playing were exemplary though. And his sound was well-recorded.

Side two is a live recording of a gig back in Louisville. Jimmy's friend (and fellow guitarist) Jack Brengle played bass, with future Mingus sideman Bobby Jones on tenor.

A memorable recording...

[Rob MacKillop]

And Varese was apparently interested in jazz/improvisation. Here's an oddity:

Lol, that is funny. And people thought Ornette was ‘out’. This predates the first Ornette recording, Something Else in 1958, and Free Jazz was 1960. Who played on the Varesse recording?

[Rob MacKillop]

The note below the YouTube recording is most helpful:

Alex Ross writes: "...audio snippets of a series of 1957 jazz improvisation sessions that Varèse attended and to some extent directed. Earle Brown organized these sessions, in collaboration with Teo Macero; in a subsequent interview with the Varèse scholar Olivia Mattis, Brown described how Varèse supplied the musicians with graphic charts that gave rough indications of pitch, dynamics, and rhythm while allowing considerable leeway for improvisation. (One such chart can be seen above.) The sessions took place at the Greenwich House Music School; Macero, Art Farmer, Hal McKusick, Hall Overton, Frank Rehak, Ed Shaughnessy, and, it seems, Charles Mingus were among the players. The composer can be heard speaking to the musicians between takes".Purportedly Varèse used extracts of the sessions for his Poème électronique.The original tape is at the Paul Sacher Foundation.

[Jimmy blue note]

Phil Shaap was a very knowledgable Parker historian and radio show host on WKCR in NY. He did numerous detailed and in depth interviews with Parker colleagues and collaborators. Phil was especially interested in this era as Parker was on the verge of a new music working with musicians in the MJQ and major players in the movement that would eventually become third stream, western classical and jazz combined.
In a broadcast, he said Parker expressed a deep interest in classical composers Verese and Hindemith particularly, but those composers, and Verese specifically, athough enthusiastic about Parkers initial energy, never got to work with him nor pass on their knowledge because Parker either didn't show up or didn't follow up when they'd made plans.
The end of his life was a time of great promise and possibility, but sadly, Charlie Parker's time never came to be.

[Jimmy blue note]

Actually, Charlie Parker did get lessons from Varese. According to my good friend and business partner, Bob Mover who used to go to Pietro Carbón's string repair shop on 49 McDugal Street in the early 1970s, he spoke to Carbón. Pietro told him that Bob reminded him of Charlie Parker who also came to his repair shop. Carbón later introduced Varese to Charlie, when Parker performed at Birdland.

Hmmm, interesting. It'd been reported that although they met, Verese was disappointed that despite appointments and plans, Charlie never actually showed up at any of their appointed times. Edgar was reported regretful that their introduction and brief interaction was the only time they talked. This was also an anecdote I recently heard recounted by a recap and rebroadcast on WKCR on the last years of Parker as told by Phil Schaap.
Either way, it's too bad Parkers enthusiasm, interest and promise never came to be realized. His recordings with Milt Jackson pointed to a very interesting direction he and the music may have taken.