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A tip for the amp sim people. Just downloaded the new Cory Wong amp sim and it’s the first time my Heritage sounds like wood through an amp plugin. Especially the one that simulates a DI through some vintage console.
Tried bias, amplitude, the works. I’m buying this one.
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07-09-2020 01:55 PM
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Cool. I'll have to check it out. Cory Wong is simply magical.
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I'd love to know more about what they're actually based on and hear some real world tones that are more useful to me, but I'm incredibly pleased that someone is taking clean tones seriously. It's been a little disappointing for me out there. Lots of mediocre fender sounds to choose from.
Oddly, my favorite clean amp sim has been softube Marshall blues breaker. By far. I can make PRS supermodels work, and ampire is also passable. Early returns on amplitube are a little meh.
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The amp snob is a dumble. The direct is a sim of some vintage console channel, ssl or neve, forgot which. The source for the clean amp is unknown. Doesn’t quite sound like a fender to me.
Yeah my biggest problem with amplitube/bias/etc is that I miss the dynamics of an amp, it maybe sounds like a fender but the touch is oddly flat.
The Neuraldsp Cali sim is super touch sensitive, it has a clean marshallish sound that’s killer... if your jazz is Wayne Krantz like stuff.
Getting there.
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Maybe you should try the Simplifier: https://www.simplifieramp.com/, from the videos it seems to have a real nice clean sound.
I'd love to try it out, hope they will show up in stores in Europe.
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dumble and direct? Interesting. Don't really need those sounds ( maybe a gained up dumble?) and I can easily get direct sounds with my preamps. Heard a lot of good this about it, but I guess I can wait. I'm truly enjoying my bluesbreaker and I've just whipped the amplitube orange or120 into a decent clean. Between those and my voxes, I don't need more.
Originally Posted by frankhond
I'm finding that there are some tricks to really unlocking an amp sim, but some of it requires more gear /or skill than the average guy is willing to put in. But the easiest thing is better ir's. And more ir's. With more mics. I never do less than two mics on a cab, and maybe two cabs with a total of four mics. really helps to make up for the deficiencies of a single mic, which can never give you an amp in the room sound.
The other big ( but simple) thing you could do is a little room reverb. It just makes things magical. You can add more later, of course.
I do more than that, of course, but I treat recording. I'm the the studio. Of course I'm going to add channel strips and effects and outboard gear. It's not cheating; I would have done the same with an amp and a mic. But all those skills and techniques carry over onto amp sims as well, and most folks aren't really familiar enough to do that, or don't realize that all those presets have done that for them already.
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The real interest for me is how these things could work for me ON STAGE , in a simple and portable setup. To be able to just set up my iPad pro with my sheetmusic in Fourscore, plug into a JAM or iRig interface, go to a powered monitor from there and be done. Probably not for every type of gig but still many ...
Is latency not a problem any more these days or does it depend on the available computing power ?
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I tried downloading the free trial version of the Archetype Cory Wong but it wants license numbers and I can't find any information about the free trial on the website or in the manual. Does anyone know what I am missing?
oops. Just figured it out. I'll give a review in a couple days.Last edited by WilliamScott; 07-14-2020 at 05:36 PM. Reason: fixed it
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Likewise. I don’t know why devices like the v machine or muse receptor from a few years ago couldn’t have been developed and improved on. The ability to load up your favorite VST’s and take them out with you in a portable rig that’s built like a tank would be fantastic. Seems there is a market there for having a rugged robust unit on stage rather than a computer or iPad, (this cory wong plugin isn’t for iPad right?) Originally Posted by gitman
SM Pro Audio • V-Machine •
cheers!Last edited by Jazzism; 07-15-2020 at 05:10 AM.
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If only I could get my sounds from an iPad...
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They're in stock at Anderton's here in the UK. Originally Posted by MikeTT
LINK: https://www.andertons.co.uk/dsm-and-...e-stereo-pedal
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Back to the original topic, I downloaded the free trial of the Archetype Wong and finally got it working. This is a great sounding amp sim with lots of control over the sound. I won't buy it though.
It seems to have a default ASIO setting that leads to an excruciating delay. I could get the delay reduced to something playable by cutting down the number of samples from the default 256 to 96 or lower but then the sound became course and grainy.
As a DSP effect for recorded tracks it's great but it is no fun to play. I worried that my interface was letting me down but when I tried switching to Guitar Rig 5 there were absolutely no such problems.
YMMV but I'll be letting my free trial expire.
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I can easily run it at 64 or 32 samples on my macbook pro from 2013 with an RME babyface. I'm guessing it uses quite a lot DSP power, but unless you have a very old computer, perhaps doublecheck the asio settings. Originally Posted by WilliamScott
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Latency is not at all a problem with modern hardware. But I would not consider an ipad with an irig a stage solution - way to flimsy and breakable. Someone sneezes in the middle of a song and a cable comes loose, or your ipad falls and breaks. Every stage is different. People (including me) have been gigging with laptops for years now and it's just not a robust situation, although one can make do with some provisions. Originally Posted by gitman
There are already solutions - the line6 helix or neuraldsp quad cortex if you need lots of sounds, kemper if you have a set list of sounds and a rig that can be profiled etc. These aren't exactly plug and play for those who prefer simplicity, but Fender just released the Tonemaster combos, and they are simply a Deluxe or a Twin. I can't tell the difference in a shop, on stage it would matter even less, they are very lightweight and have an amp+speaker sim output for PA or recording that to me sounds just as good as a miked cab. That's where the future would be for me.
So you don't have to choose anymore whether to lug a heavy, expensive tube amp or some crappy Peavey Bandit... it's more what kind of gig you will be doing. And currently it seems "youtube" is the gig for most...
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I was referring to a controlled situation, where I'm alone "on stage" as I usually are with my solo gigs (or with just a bass + sax/singer etc.) . My experience with sheetmusic on my iPad pro has been positive so far and the stand I use is very stable, even has a little shelf for the iPen, spare picks, etc. and I can flip the pages with a bluetooth footswitch on the floor. I'm not looking for a software/computer-based rig for my regular gigs with larger bands, it's just an idea for the coffee-house type affairs, social events, brunches etc.
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Well in that case it sounds like you have a well defined gig and feel comfortable with the ipad, so why not? To get low latency you need DSP power to bring the sample vector down to 32 or 64 samples, and an audio interface that doesn't do extra roundabouts with the signal... the question is whether an ipad can handle that, and I don't see why a modern one couldn't. Whether there are good sims for the ipad and gig quality audio interfaces is another matter, unfortunately I haven't explored that avenue. Originally Posted by gitman
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is the latency on iPads low enough on the newest models for amp modeling?
I only tried with models about 2 generations ago and then the latency was not low/consistent enough for me.
On my Macs with thunderbolt it's finally low and consistent enough for me.
I once thought about setting up / putting together a specialized rig with a mac mini, audio software, interface and controller etc pp. But in the end, for that kind of money I prefer to buy another guitar or amp;-)
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There should be enough dsp in a modern ipad, but another factor is the power management. An ipad is designed to save battery power, this is accomplished by resting the cpu as much as possible, which in turn is likely to cause fluctuations in available dsp. Software and hardware needs to be designed to handle this situation. Not sure if developers see enough of a potential market to put in the work. I think you just have to try some apps and see what you get. Originally Posted by MikeTT
Personally I would go for some dedicated modeler that can load irs and is built to handle being on the road with sturdy connectors and metal body. The ipad can do what it does best - show stuff on the screen.
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Sounds reasonable - however, I doubt I can just go to a store with my iPad, load up the software and see how it might work .....
OTOH I already own a Helix Stomp and I'm familiar with it (tweaking the presets on the fly etc.) so that in combination with my powered
speaker+ the iPad (for the backing tracks + sheets) will get me through almost any gig - the IDEA of having all that in ONE package
(and being able to manipulate/control it on the stand in front of me) still is very attractive though !
I tried some IR's while recording tracks into LOGIC and I didn't hear a major difference between those and the ones provided in LOGIC -
it might be more important for dedicated Rock sounds etc. but in my case , where I'm mostly playing clean sounds it's not worth the extra expense.
YMMV
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So far I only used the iPad for show notes / cue lists etc., mostly in theatre productions with live music.
I'm just not there yet to trust them (or macs) enough for sound production in a live setup.
I guess it can work perfectly fine nowadays, but my problem is that I tried all this stuff when the it wasn't really ready yet, which probably destroyed my ability to trust forever, lol.
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I demoed the Cory Wong & I really like the amps & the feel.... Pretty good for an amp sim.
Didn't particularly like the effects.
I ended up buying the Kuassa Matchlock & I've been liking it with Ownhammer's deluxe reverb speaker cab IR's.
The Matchlock has 3 amps based on a Twin Reverb, Super Reverb & a Vibrolux Reverb.
It feels like the tone controls are quite representative of a real amp. I find a lot of the time amp sims are really bright.
Matchlock - Best Fender Inspired Amp Sim VST | KUASSA
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I recently tried the brainworks bx_bassdude and it has some really great sounds too.
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I'm messing with the Neural/Wong package right now and my experience is pretty much the same as yours: I like the amp but not the effects. I'll check out the Matchlock. Thanks for the pointer. Originally Posted by gratay
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The Matchlock doesn't have any effects at all.. Not even reverb.. Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
I found the spring reverb pedal in Logic works great so I just use that... The reverb plugins don't quite sound like an amp to me.
Might try Kuassa's reverb pedal plugin & see how that works... But overall it seems easy to get a fairly convincing fender clean sound which is all I want
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The Wong tube screamer pedal is actually very useful for more modern sounds, but you kinda need a tele or a strat or a 335... for an archtop with flats I just turn everything off. There are some great sounds possible in each amp.
The point of in-plug-in effects for me is that when I add an effect slot after the amp in logic, the live latency increases, seems a second buffer is created in the chain. Maybe there is a way to route it differently. So I use the built in reverb for live monitoring.
With a pure amp plugin like the bx_bassdude I use the reverb in the rme mixer instead.
Also, important is that different microphones, placement and cabs give drastically different tones. This is perhaps the best part of the Wong plugin.
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