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I have mine already (beautiful blonde) but in looking at the Walkin website (to see if they had any of the 175 knockoffs in stock) I saw this, which I would quickly add to my collection, if I had more money than sense.
????????????????????
Solid Koa, vs. maple lam. Wonder what the difference in sound would be....
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05-04-2024 12:09 PM
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Really great looking guitar! I've often wondered why laminate archtops are almost exclusively maple. Gibson I guess. There's a huge world of face veneers that would work just as well. Hard to know what the difference might be without buying it :)
From what I can tell this would be a laminate, like other Jim Halls. Google translate of that page says it is. As such I'd think there'd be very little difference in sound, especially thru the amp.
I couldn't find out what the inner plies are made of, but most of the time it's not the same as the faces. In a production shop you'd have all the core plies the same and just change the outer veneers. EG: highly flamed maple is more expensive than plain, so smart builders don't use it where it isn't seen.
So even if you're a firm believer in 'tone wood' difference thru the amp, this could only sound about 20% 'different' at the very best, since the 3 inner cores are likely the same as a maple Jim Hall... maybe?
With my blown ears especially I'm about 100% sure they'd sound the same, if they have the same strings, pickup and amp. As long as I couldn't see it that is.
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If it was good enough for Jim Hall...
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It was intriguing, as the translation I got suggested it might be solid wood, but you are probably right. Here's the translation I got:
Originally Posted by ccroft
Really great looking guitar! I've often wondered why laminate archtops are almost exclusively maple. Gibson I guess. There's a huge world of face veneers that would work just as well. Hard to know what the difference might be without buying it
From what I can tell this would be a laminate, like other Jim Halls. Google translate of that page says it is. As such I'd think there'd be very little difference in sound, especially thru the amp.
I couldn't find out what the inner plies are made of, but most of the time it's not the same as the faces. In a production shop you'd have all the core plies the same and just change the outer veneers. EG: highly flamed maple is more expensive than plain, so smart builders don't use it where it isn't seen.
So even if you're a firm believer in 'tone wood' difference thru the amp, this could only sound about 20% 'different' at the very best, since the 3 inner cores are likely the same as a maple Jim Hall... maybe?
With my blown ears especially I'm about 100% sure they'd sound the same, if they have the same strings, pickup and amp. As long as I couldn't see it that is.
"This is a brand new ``Jim Hall Model,'' which is manufactured in Japan with the motif of D'Aquist's late laminate model, which was used as his main guitar for many years. This model uses laminated maple wood in the standard version, but this one that is now in stock is a limited edition model that uses the rare koa wood! You can enjoy the unique beautiful heathered appearance and more acoustic sound."
It doesn't say it is or isn't laminate specifically. I would imagine if it were solid, it might be more feedback prone...
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Walkin had two of these. I bought the other one last month. I had it shipped to the US from Japan. The guitar looks, plays and sounds great! I asked Walkin how the sound of this Koa version compared to the standard version and they said the sound was very much the same.
I am happy to provide more information is anyone is considering this guitar.
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Good job! So, is it a koa veneer with laminate, or solid wood? Originally Posted by Kevin
the website photos look like unfinished koa on the interior, through the f hole...
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Currency translator says: 4,025.34 US Dollars.
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I could never give this one up, but adding the koa? Would be like Betty and Veronica. Betty has always been more faithful, but the dark mystery of Veronica beckons. Nah! .... but, still.... Nope! Unless...
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Woodworking note: that won't tell you if it's solid or laminate. The correct way to make any veneer glue up dictates the same veneer be used on both faces for stability. It's called a balanced panel. Originally Posted by yebdox
Nice guitar Yeb! I'm a B-120 guy so I it's right in my wheelhouse. You don't need another one!
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i saw this the other day, looks great...if it was a Bruno i would have brought it
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ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! I do NOT need another guitar! (But, I don't have a national steel bodied resonator. And, I really could use a baritone of some kind. And I have nothing in a P-90! And, and...) Originally Posted by ccroft
I think you are right about the koa, makes sense that they would just substitute Koa for both external layers on the lam. Would look strange to see unfinished maple glaring out through the sound hole.
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It is unfinished koa on the inside. I am not sure if all the plys are koa.
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I might suggest taking a peek at the cross section of the wood provided by the cuts of the unbound F holes, or in the case that they're bound in some way, loosen the pickup ring and lift the pickup assembly out a bit. You'll see the plies clearly if it's laminated.
Product descriptions tend to highlight the facade wood and downplay the constructive aspects. Best way is to take a peek where the top has been cut clean through.
Just to add to the confusion, even solid carved guitars can be built and routed for pickup mounting but it's not all that common and it tends to be be thicknessed heavier for stability. I've seen much more variation in laminates to the point that there are high end laminates that have a more defined resonance and response than some overbuilt solid wood guitars.
As pointed out, the way to tell is to hold it, play it and see if it resonates with you. And that can be a visual appeal too.
I had a conversation with guitar icon Bill Leavitt a long time ago. He told me he had an epiphone, an OLD pre Gibson Epi with a solid top. At some point he had to have work done on it and it involved refinishing a portion. When the original finish was scraped back, the luthier realized in horror that that incredible grain count was 50% painted on! Someone at the time of construction had meticulously painted in grain lines to simulate a greater grain count! Well needless to say, he never knew in all the years he'd played and performed with it that this had been the case so lesson being, what you feel is what you feel and what you don't know won't hurt you.
But Bill added with a smile that from that point on, he didn't feel the same and he never felt the same bond with that old guitar. Connection with a guitar is a very elusive thing. If it's sexy to you, you make beautiful music together no matter what the specs say.
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Decorative veneers are used on the top and bottom of a veneer stack. Otherwise you might get at a peek at the man behind the curtain. That is to say, how many pieces are glued together, what the quality of the internal layers. All things manufacturers don't want you to know. It is likely that the internal layers are birch or maple. There could be Sapele too since it's cheap. Originally Posted by yebdox
These are likely made in Terada where almost all of laminate archtops are made. They make excellent quality guitars for the money but there is almost no chance, the woods are solid. You can use almost any figured wood as a decorative veneer. All major companies do so, including the likes of Gibson.
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Not bad for 4K!!!
Arnie...
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I've mentioned this before on this forum, but people might be interested to note that the yen has been floating between about 145 to 150 per dollar this year. It was 104 at the start of 2021, for example. In other words, it's a very good time to spend dollars in Japan. They go further today than any time in the past 20 years. Originally Posted by Mick-7
I'm not trying to talk anyone into any purchase, though. I just happen to live in Japan half the time, so I track the exchange rate a bit. I doubt this situation will last forever.
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speaking of Sadowsky i got an email a couple days ago saying hes getting out of the archtop biz.
"After 20 wonderful years, I have decided to end my archtop guitar production.
It has been a great ride and I have loved all of the players I have had the opportunity to work with over the years.
I appreciate all of you who have appreciated and supported my work.
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I saw that also. The archtops that are currently for sale are the last of them. There are a few in the US on the Sadowsky site.
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And, the koa model from Walkin is no more!
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Rich Severson has a neat way to check for solid tops. Gently press on the "point" near the ends of the f-holes. If they flex, it's probably solid. If they are super stiff, it's probably lam. But as Rich says, "Don't press too hard!" Originally Posted by ccroft
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It's a lam, but GORGEOUS .. there is another one available in At Gutars NY ..$5750
Just a moment...
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