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So.. finally figured I'm ready to learn the tune. I mean, ready to internalize. Previous efforts failed, but that was a few years ago.
Anyway, love the Wes takes on it. The problem is last 2 bars on the B part. I listened to two different Wes takes, and one Miles, and they all playing differently.
How do you choose which harmony you play on a gig, or a jam? I never heard anyone call this tune on any jams TBH, but maybe I would... I really dig it now!
So Wes 1.) Abm Db7 Gm C7| Gbm Cb7 Fm7b5 Bb7|
Wes 2.) Abm Db7 Gbm Cb7| Em A7 Fm7b5 Bb7|
Miles: Bbm Eb7 Abm Db7| Gbm Cb7 Fm7b5 Bb7|
Last edited by Hep To The Jive; 03-23-2017 at 12:37 AM.
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03-23-2017 12:33 AM
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I like ...
xx11 10 11 11
xx9899
xx7677
6x6776
Sorry if this confuses things even more !
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So two chords per measure right? Looks like a variation of Wes 2nd example to me.
Originally Posted by pingu
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Your safest bet will probably be the Miles-version, methinks
I listened to a Monk-recording..he went:
|Db7 B7 |Abm7 Db7 Fm7 Bb7 |
Still, the Miles-changes are the ones I usually hear.
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I see. Personally, I prefer the Wes 1st one, it just makes more sense and easier to remember Originally Posted by Runepune
Your safest bet will probably be the Miles-version, methinks
I listened to a Monk-recording..he went:
|Db7 B7 |Abm7 Db7 Fm7 Bb7 |
Still, the Miles-changes are the ones I usually hear.
But Miles' one is fine too.
I wonder when Wes was recording it, did he discuss with the band which way he'd play it every time? hmmm
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Originally Posted by Runepune
Your safest bet will probably be the Miles-version, methinks
I listened to a Monk-recording..he went:
|Db7 B7 |Abm7 Db7 Fm7 Bb7 |
Still, the Miles-changes are the ones I usually hear.
I like the Monk changes you have there...
When I play it solo, It's Db13 B13 (can set either up with a ii) Ab-7 (can go to Db9) Fm9 (or half dim) Bb7b13
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Whenever I've played it at a jam or group it has been the Real Book changes, which are close to the Miles changes, but without the intro, the interlude between solos, or the ending. But TBH it has been a really long time since I've bumped into it at a jam, and I don't think I ever have at an open jam. I think people are generally afraid to call it in contexts where there's no opportunity to work it out in advance because trainwrecks are almost highly likely. Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
John
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I suspected as much. Not exactly a 'wing it' kind of tune. Originally Posted by John A.
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I second what John A. wrote. Almost impossible to call it at a jam because nobody wants to start a discussion over changes on stage.
Well in a band it would be an entirely different thing, but there are so many ballads anyway... and so little time to play slow stuff... no matter how much I like it ... and I like it!
PS. I've given up the quest for the "right" changes, I play the ones I like.
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Probably the most harmonically variable tune in the repertoire.
Learn it anyway ! (and print up some charts of your preferred changes)
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I guess it might be a nice idea to reference, or pay tribute to what one might consider one's favourite version of the tune,
I suppose one could go to Cootie Williams version,
and Miles's version included on the Prestige LP "Collectors Items" with Bird and Rollins, both on tenor
my favourite version by a guitarist,
or possibly this,
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It's not just the chords for the end of the bridge that are contentious. The opening is often written in the original Real Book and elsewhere as Eb- Cm7b5 | F-7b5 Bb7 | whereas Monk usually played something more like Eb- Eb-/D Eb-/Db / | C-7b5 / Ab-7 Db7 |.
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Interesting set of changes with a "Monk-ish" flavour at learnjazzstandards.com
https://www.learnjazzstandards.com/w...nstruments.pdf
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Miles once went up to Monk and told him he was playing it wrong.
That doesn't necessarily mean that Miles was right, it just meant there were two ways they played it and Monk played it one way because he wrote it, Miles played it another way because he was Miles.
Hey everyone knows there's what's on the page and then there's what you do with it. Great tune that leaves a lot of responsibility to the player.
David
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I've done this tune quite a few times. I refuse to torture myself trying to do it in Ebm. Maybe Em or, like Joe Pass, in Dm.
Mind you, I do like Wes' version best. But I wouldn't copy it.
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An infamous recording session. Wiki: Originally Posted by pubylakeg
According to Ira Gitler's liner notes, the 1953 session was only the second time Parker had recorded on a tenor sax. According to the CD edition's liner notes, that session was the only time Parker and Rollins recorded together.
Davis describes the session with Parker in his autobiography as having been very chaotic. It was Davis' first session of 1953 and his heroin habit had gotten very bad. Parker had quit his own heroin habit following the arrest of his trumpet player Red Rodney, instead drinking enormous quantities of alcohol. He consumed a quart of vodka at the rehearsal, then spoke condescendingly to Davis as if it were his session and Davis an employee or a child. After arguing, Parker fell asleep and Davis was so mad he played poorly, which in turn angered Gitler who was producing.[6]
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Real Book chords are just flat out wrong there, in my opinion, nothing to contend. Originally Posted by PMB
And if you don't end the A sections on an Eb major, you should be dragged into a field and beaten.
I think this tune lives in Eb, but ragman, be sure to check out Barry Galbraith's Em arrangement. It's just perfect.Last edited by mr. beaumont; 03-24-2017 at 11:10 AM.
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Thanks. I could do it in Ebm, I'm just being difficult :-)
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The Cardenas/Sickler book has Db7 Cb7 / Abm7 Fm7(no 5th)-Bb7.
I've always learned tunes from the original Monk recordings and checked against Cardenas, and he's always right. The only tiny nit I've ever found not to agree with is the walk down in "Let's Cool One", he writes G7 but Monk smacks a low D there every time.
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Go to the source, find Monk's compositional/harmonic intent, digest, do your own take.
The end...
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Sure, I only meant it was contentious in a jam format. The original Real Book, with all its questionable changes and melodic inaccuracies became the source for many tunes rather than the original recording themselves. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Originally Posted by PMB
Honestly, a lot of em aren't that bad if you know how to read what a chart implies and not treat it as law. I'm not anti real book.
But the fifth edition changes for "midnight" are just plain bad. Sixth edition cleaned it up pretty well. I Say The Midnight Changes Aren't contentious, Because If You Argue In faVOR Of The Fifth ed. Chords, you've clearly never heard the song.
Ears uber alles.Last edited by mr. beaumont; 03-25-2017 at 08:59 AM.
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The charts I got from two different real books, I didn't trust them much. Seems many chords are wrong. I think this tune is not that hard to figure by ear. I was hesitating to learn it for years because I was afraid I don't feel the form. At this point I felt confident I can absorb it, and figuring out the chords was actually fun. That's how I came across of the inconsistency in different versions! Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Transposing chords for these tunes is difficult. A good pianist may use different chords or different inversions on every chorus and make them all work. The bass player may play different notes, which has the effect of changing the chord. And is that a Gbmin6 or is it an Ebmin7b5? Is the chord name derived from the lowest note played or from the intent of the chord's function? How do we know the functional intent for certain, unless we can ask the composer or performer- we can make an educated guess, but...
Much of the argument about what are the "right" chords is mostly BS, which mainly boil down to "my ears are better than your ear.". The chords that sound good are the right chords. We all reharmonize tunes on the fly- instead of descending ii-Vs we may instead descend dominant chords chromatically, for example, relying on voice leading to tie it together.
The 5th Ed Real Book charts are (1) mostly transposed by Berklee students- all of whom are more talented than me, so I'm not sure I have any latitude to declare them as "wrong"- and (2) are often specific to a particular recording which is probably not the original, and maybe one particular chorus of that recording. When Mel Bay came out with the 6th Ed., they took a different tack and relied on published sheet music (mainly their own). In some cases I like the "wrong" chords better. IMHO even better are the Sher New Real Books.
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