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First chord Bb? Your sheet.
Originally Posted by scout
First chord C? Her sheet.
By the way, if you dig her, this confusion is great practice for a long relationship together.
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06-26-2024 09:49 PM
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It can be confusing. When a tenor player plays a note that looks to you like a C -- the note that comes out of the horn will be the pianist's Bb.
So, if you're reading a song in the key of Bb and the tenor reads over your shoulder, the tenor will sound a step too low. That is, when they read your Bb, you will hear Ab.
But, if the tenor reads a chart in C, then their C will sound like your Bb.
The RB comes in a Concert version, meaning what the piano, guitar and other C instruments need. It also comes in a version for Bb instruments like trumpet and tenor. There are also Eb instruments, like Alto sax and there's a version for them.
I know lots of horn players. A few transpose like machines. But, some working pros aren't really good at it. It varies. Usually, they can do it, but not like a machine.
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"It can be confusing" .. you got that one right mate
..I'm hoping that when we have our first play together tomorrow,all of the above will make sense ... once we hear each others' instruments together ,our ears should tell the story ... thanks RP .
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It's her problem, not yours. Originally Posted by scout
You can play in Bb, as written, because the guitar is a concert instrument. She has to play it in C because she's playing a Bb instrument. That means whatever she plays will sound a tone lower than you.
So she has to transpose up into C. Her problem, not yours. If she can't do it she'll have to learn. Sad but true.
Her best bet it to learn the tune in C, not try to read and transpose at the same time. There are plenty of books for Bb instruments with the tunes already transposed.
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Mind you, the unfairness of it all is mitigated by the fact that, for her, playing in C is actually easier. Us poor guitarists have to play in awkward keys like Bb to keep up with the tenor sax players!
You might remind her of that :-)
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Or you could do the transposing and let her play it as written for her instrument. That way you get to practice transposing. Originally Posted by ragman1
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Or you could stand on your head with a banana in your ear
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For me to do the transposing on Guitar would be far too painful
.I've committed about 25 jazz standards to memory and to start again ,with me in the twilight years (73) ,I'm just not up for it.
Best plan for me would be to learn new tunes in hex Sax friendly keys think .I'm OK with that .
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"It's her problem, not yours." .. I'm beginning to think you may have a point there mate ..
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I mean … depends on who wants to play the song. Originally Posted by scout
If you want to play I’ve Got Rhythm and don’t bring the music people need to play it, then it’s your problem not hers.
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I don't agree at all. Sax players know they have to transpose if they want to play in concert. It's up to them to get their stuff together.
Who is this female? Old or young? Experienced or beginner? Even if it's just hobby stuff she still needs to know the process, not ask everyone else to bend over backwards for her.
Like I said before, there are plenty of books for Bb instruments, pre-transposed.
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Here you are. I Got Rhythm in C for Bb instruments. The things I do.
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Scout,
Generally all you need to do is learn how to transpose.... down a Maj. 2nd for Bb instruments.
Meaning you see a Bbma7 chord or Bb, D, C notes you play it down a Maj. 2nd .... An Abma7 chord or Ab, C, Bb notes.
And down a Min. 3rd for Eb instruments. Meaning you see a Bbmaj7 chord or Bb note..., you play Gmaj7 or G note.
Technically it just becomes mechanical. You do need to be able to sight read.
Also many players think Roman Numerals for changes... I VI II- V7 etc..
Whats fun is on a gig ...give a Eb instrument a Bb part lol.
Think like your playing a Blues in Bb. You can probable easily play that blues in Ab or G, F, Eb etc...Last edited by Reg; 06-28-2024 at 03:32 PM.
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And this works for you? When you play jazz tunes with other people? Originally Posted by ragman1
Be honest now
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Yeah and it's up to the bandleader to bring what they need to make the music happen. Originally Posted by ragman1
If you want to play it, you should bring it (or be okay compromising).
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Once, at a show I put together at Brighton Art College some years ago. The sax player, a girl called Charlotte, was brilliant, no problem at all. We played Billies Bounce, certainly not her only tune. She went to the US later. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
And this works for you? When you play jazz tunes with other people?
Be honest now
Any other questions?
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If I was a sax player I'd come prepared, like Charlotte. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
I'm not suggesting that scout and his player come into that category but it's a lesson she should learn at whatever level she's at. Scout should not have to transpose anything, the tune's in Bb, not Ab. So she plays it in C.
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So all your bands have to transpose to fit in with non-concert instruments? I don't think so. Why should they? And what happens when there's a Bb and an Eb instrument? What then? Originally Posted by Reg
Say you've got a combo like piano, guitar, bass and drums. And a sax player. And the sax player says' Oh, god I've got to transpose this up a tone. I can't do that so you'll all have play to fit with me'. And you'll have to do that for every tune...
I'd get a better sax player :-)
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"Assume everyone will do as I would do," is the worst possible advice you can give someone. Originally Posted by ragman1
Assume no one will do as I would do and prepare for that situation, is somewhat better.
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I wouldn't play with people like that. And if I went in making demands I wouldn't expect to be there very long.
About 10 minutes, I should think
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I used to go to this club. Lovely people but the standard wasn't high. Lots of guitars. You could start a song and it was okay for other people to join in.
That's when you realised they were not only out of tune with you but with themselves as well... Great stuff :-)
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And I guess the very best advice is "bring the correct music for what you want to play." Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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Obviously. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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... erm ... my point exactly. Originally Posted by ragman1
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Well, not quite. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
So I have to arrive prepared for a bunch of unprepared idiots playing different stuff? Nope, sorry. Mind you, there are occasions when it could be all right to adjust but it would seriously depend.Assume no one will do as I would do and prepare for that situation, is somewhat better.
FWIW, I don't think I've ever gone unprepared to any gig or studio. We knew exactly what we were going to do and did it.
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