Counting Rhythms

[bobsguitars09]

How do you go about counting Rhythms-Notes?

Do you do the 1 and 2 and.. 1 e and a 2 e and..

or do you count like a drummer on guitar like.. 1 ta e ta & ta a ta 2 ta e ta..?

what method works for you with 32nd notes and up?

[Reg]

No one counts 32nd notes... I don't count, I feel, if it's the 4th 16th note I feel it as "and 1". and with 2nd 16th , "1 and". I count/feel almost everything in 2, depending on style, 1 and 3 ...or 2 and 4 . Almost all rhythms are either as I said "1 and" or "and 1". If I'm counting I'm not ahead and that really means I'm behind.
I think as a kid I was taught 1 er and er, that was more a method of learning to understand the rhythmic breakdowns or sub-divisions of the beat. Reg

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

I always wanted to be able to reel of rhythms like at the beginning of this clip:

[jimiclaptoncarl18]

Well, I don't really count either when playing 32nd notes, I may just slow down the tempo, and count 1E&A 2E&A..etc.. always keeping in mind there are two notes for 1 16th.

And something my instructor tells us, when trying to read a rhythm always count the shortest note value, unless it's triplets, then you switch.

[Dad3353]

Thanks for the video, BDLH; pity about the 'Coitus interruptus'. Shakti? Over the top; I was wafted up to the ceiling during their concert at Hammersmith (Billy Cobham, Shakti, then Weather Report... couldn't capture WR; too far gone on Shakti. Great stuff...).
For the OP: no, one wouldn't 'count' 32, except when analysing (slowly...) a new piece or rhythm. Since when did drummers count for anything, anyway?

[Reg]

Those days were fun... great post and comment BDLH. as always Douglas... once there were guitar players... Reg

[bobsguitars09]

Count/Tap foot-for practice. thanks guys

[M-ster]

Ha! Shakti was my first thought, too, upon reading this thread's title. Nice, Big Daddy ...

[ksjazzguitar]

Yeah,

I don't think that you count 32nd notes.

I think that the point is to get to the point where you can "feel" every possible 16th note grouping of a beat.



Just practice them all. String them together in different combinations. Try to get to the point that you don't have to count them but can just see them and "feel" them - that's when you can really do rhythms.

Then just extrapolate that information to the 32nd notes, just being twice as fast. If I get some ungodly 32nd note rhythm, then I just count it out as 16th notes (1e&a, etc.) and then learn the rhythm that way.

I don't know any people that "count" 32nd notes. Yes, the Indians have their own system for counting rhythms, but I don't think that we need to get that complex. I think it's just a matter of pattern recognition.

Peace,
Kevin

[M-ster]

... Yes, the Indians have their own system for counting rhythms, but I don't think that we need to get that complex.

There's a certain irony here, isn't there?

[ksjazzguitar]

There's a certain irony here, isn't there?

I'm not sure I see the irony. I just mean that they have a very complex rhythmic system that make ours look very simple (at least in my brief exposure to Hindustani raga.) I'm not saying that theirs is better - there system fits how they think of rhythm and ours first how we do.

Peace,
Kevin

[JonnyPac]

I get stumped with complex tuplets. Fitting 5, 7, or 9 in the space of 2, etc. I can do it with a metronome after a lot of headache, but never in a live setting.

I'm happy with the basics:

Whole+ up to 16ths at med tempos
32nds at slower tempos
quarter-note thru 16th triplets
tuplets fitting four even notes over three

playing in 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7/4 etc.
swing feel or straight with various syncopation

[timscarey]

I subdivide to the smallest rhythm in the measure/phrase and give each symbol the correct number of that subdivision, example...

2 bars of 2/4......

dotted 8th - 16 tied to another 16th - 8th rest - 16th tied to a quarter note - quarter note

would be counted as straight 16th notes....

123 12 12 12345 1234

basically everything stays in groups of 1, 2, 3, or 4 with the occasional quick 5 or 7 16th notes.

I learned the system from one of my teachers a long time ago, it really helps, sometimes the 1 e and a, 2 e and a, etc.. can get to be too much in the moment and it helps to just focus on the duration of each note relative to the lowest common denominator, it makes odd time signatures and weird syncopations a lot easier too. at least for me.

[ksjazzguitar]

I get stumped with complex tuplets. Fitting 5, 7, or 9 in the space of 2, etc. I can do it with a metronome after a lot of headache, but never in a live setting.

For pentuplets, I just think "hippopotamus." It has 5 syllables so it fits nicely. That isn't any different "1e&a" etc, just with different syllables. You can use something else for 7, I use "heavy hippopotamus." 9 could be "super heavy hippopotamus"? Whatever works.

Peace,
Kevin

[mississippi]

I find by counting and tapping my foot and also a shoulder movement really helps, but I'm just a beginner

[M-ster]

I'm not sure I see the irony.

Sorry, a weak attempt at humor, I suppose. I was noting the most complex poster on the site saying that we needn't "get that complex." It struck me as funny, at the time.

Sorry for the tangent.

[ksjazzguitar]

IC, makes sense now. I thought it was some jab at Indians.

Peace,
Kevin

[M-ster]

What's wrong with Indians?

[ksjazzguitar]

What's wrong with Indians?

Nothing, that's why I was confused.

Peace,
Kevin

[Paul Kinnear]

Hey Bobsguitars09. There is a book called "Reading Contemporary Guitar Rythms" by M T. Szymscak. The book doesn't really suggest a method to counting but does contain an abundance of exercises related to Kevin's post regarding sixteenth note groupings. Good luck.

[bobsguitars09]

Thanks guys!!

[green.note]

Hindemith's Elementary Training for Musicians is a great resource for this kind of thing. It's far from "Elementary Training" for most of us. If anyone can make it half-way through that book they have a great skillset to work from.

It's all about internalizing the smallest subdivision...