I don't understand secondary dominants

[flugel]

That's the truth.

I have a couple of jazz theory books and I don't understand the concept, maybe I am dumb or something.

Can you post some practical examples?

What's your approach to them when composing?

[bako]

The primary dominant chord is the V7. It's function is to get you to the I chord.

Key of C:

I C
II Dm
III Em
IV F
V G
VI Am
VII Bdim


Primary dominant

V7 of I ----- G7 > C

All secondary dominants function to bring you to chords in the key other than the I chord.

V7 of II ----- A7 > Dm

V7 of III ----- B7 > Em

V7 of IV ----- C7 > F

V7 of V ------ D7 > G

V7 of VI ----- E7 > Am

V7 of VII ---- F#7 > Bdim (less common)

In some progressions, sequences of secondary dominants can also occur.

Ex. E7 A7 D7 G7 C (as in Sweet Georgia Brown)

Although these chords alter the basic scale notes by one or more accidental, they are still functioning heavily within the harmonic orbit of the key. While these chords can be said to be borrowed from another scale, they are not a modulation in the strict sense of establishing a new key.

As a family, dominant seventh chords accept a wider array of notes than do major or minor chords.
In this way they open up more note possibilities than the original scale derived chord does.

I hope this makes some sense to you. Most important is to play these sound variations and get them into your ear.

[TH]

I don't know if this will help you or not but I think of things in a personal kind of way, so I'll just throw it out to you.
I think that seeing and hearing secondary dominants is the first step in understanding the layers of "musical grammer" as I think of it. Congratulations and welcome to the improviser's world. I think of the diatonic chords as your essential word forms, like nouns and verbs. You can, like many folk musics, get around quite nicely sticking to the direct and easily felt essential nature of them. Within them there are a few chords that lead you somewhere else: The leading tone VII-7b5, and the dominant V7 chord.
Yeah, that V7 is so linked to the movement to the I, that it's like a musical partner. It's like an adjective. It is a part of a couple unlike the other diatonic (stand alone) chords. That's the nature of the dominant chord, it's a companion chord.

Now all those other diatonic chords can have their own adjectives, chords that work with them to make them more interesting. They have their own companion chords that create a partnership that makes them sound more complete. They have their own diatonic chords located a 4th below.

Now let's take two diatonic chords, let's be real simple. IM7 and II-7, CM7 and D-7... Nice. Simple. Essential. Easy to hear. Now that D-7 can take a companion chord so it doesn't stand alone. Let's give it an adjective that goes with it. It's own dominant 7th chord a 4th below, the A7.
CM7 A7 D-7 can you hear that?
Hey what about giving the A7 its own companion chord, that'd be a 4th below that, so that's the E7.

CM7 E7 A7 D-7 right? Hear that?
Now look at the tune All Of Me. Chew on it a little while. And while you do, be aware of why all those dominant chords are there, they want to move to the next chord. That's the pull of the secondary dominant.

I hope this wacky explanation helps you and doesn't confuse the issue. It's just the way I see it. There's the simple (stable), and there's movement to the stable. That movement is the most interesting for me. Secondary dominants.

I hope you real theoretical guys out there will forgive the non academic take on this. I'm not a theorist, it's just the way I get through the topography of a tune.
David

[AlainJazz]

Both the above explanations are truly excellent. Well done, fellows. Many theory books over complicate something that is actually quite simple.

[docbop]

Real short explanation....

What is strongest chord root movement V -> I

Basic Jazz a chord can always be preceded by what would be its V7 chord. Have a Dmi7 can preceded it with a A7.

Next Jazz basic a V7 can always be preceded by what would be its II chord. Dmi7 above can be preceded with Emi7-A7.


Good way to see all this is take a Jazz Blues like one of Parker's Blues tunes. Then look at where the basic Blues progression chords are, now see how the two rules above are used to add more chords to the progression. The V of V as explained earlier is used and also proceeding the V with its II is used. For me since I grew up playing Blues it makes it easy to see and hear how these things work.

[flugel]

Thanks guys.

So for example if I play Cmaj7-A7 is the secondary dominant of Dm7 right?And that's is the reason why it works.

If is that, I probably over complicate things in my head.

Your help is invaluable for a self taught musician like me.

[monk]

Thanks guys.

So for example if I play Cmaj7-A7 is the secondary dominant of Dm7 right? And that's is the reason why it works.

If is that, I probably over complicate things in my head.

Your help is invaluable for a self taught musician like me.

Not quite.

In the key of C, G7 is the Primary Dominant.

Any other dominant chord (D7, E7, F7, A7, B7, Eb7, Bb7, etc.) that appears in a song in the key of C IS a Secondary Dominant.

An A7 is the Primary Dominant of D, D7, Dm and Dm7.

But if that harmonic motion, A7 to D, appears in a key where the A7 is not the primary dominant then it's a secondary dominant.

[flugel]

Not quite.

In the key of C, G7 is the Primary Dominant.

Any other dominant chord (D7, E7, F7, A7, B7, Eb7, Bb7, etc.) that appears in a song in the key of C IS a Secondary Dominant.

An A7 is the Primary Dominant of D, D7, Dm and Dm7.

But if that harmonic motion, A7 to D, appears in a key where the A7 is not the primary dominant then it's a secondary dominant.

OK

I see the light LOL

In the key of C, A7 would be the primary dominant of Dm7 and a secondary dominant of C among the other 7th chords derived from C-Dm-Em etc...

[monk]

OK

I see the light LOL

In the key of C, A7 would be the primary dominant of Dm7 and a secondary dominant of C among the other 7th chords derived from C-Dm-Em etc...

You're getting closer.

In the key of C any dominant seventh chord other than G7 is a secondary dominant. That's really all there is to it on the simplest level.

Regards,
Jerome

[Reg]

The next level...

1) a dominant chord resolving, (going or moving to), a I Chord... has Dominant Function,( primary Dominant Chord, as bako posted above.

Pretty simple, we're in the key of Cmaj... G7 going to Cmaj7, V7 resolving to Imaj7.

2) A Dominant chord resolving to any other Diatonic Chord... other than I, is generally labeled a Secondary Dom.

(Diatonic chord are chords constructed from each scale degree of a scale, using only the notes from the scale and usually constructed with thirds.) the target chords in below example.

Again key of Cmaj...
A7 going to D-7
B7 going to E-7
C7 going to Fmaj7
D7 going to G7
E7 going to A-7
F#7 going to B-7b5

Sometimes to better organize understandings of harmonic movement...

3) Extended Dominant is label used to identify Dominant chords which resolve to...

3a)any secondary Dominant.

-from example above of secondary Dominants... E7 going to A7 going to D-7, the E7 could be labeled a Extended Dominant, the A7 would still be a secondary dom.

3b) or a Dominant chord going to another Extended Dom. chord... B7 going E7 going to A7 going to D-7,

-B7 is extended Dom. of E7... E7 is also an extended Dom. of A7 and A7 is still a secondary Dom. and D-7 is still the II-7 chord in Key of "C".

Both the B7 and the E7 are labeled... extended Doms. ( the A7 is a secondary Dom.

3c) This gets a little more complicated... we're adding a new piece to the organization. The piece is the II-7 chord which becomes part of a common Chord Pattern used in Jazz harmony.... the II- V.

The basic organization is... a related II-7 can be added to any V7 chord and become a (II-7 V7)... These two chord can basically become or function as... One Chord, one chord pattern.

What's a little complicated... is that they can also function individually... and you can have these two functions going on simultaneously...

I could add a Related II-7 chord to any of the V7 chords above, Secondary or extended Doms.

ex. Ext. Dom. B7, Ext. Dom. E7, Sec. Dom. A7, going to Diatonic II-7 or D-7.... could become, (F#-7 B7), (B-7 E7), (E-7 A7), D-7.

So I can also now approach any of those Related II-7's ... with an extended Dom. chord.

So this chordal game can go on and on... and there can also be Implied II's or V's approached by extended Dom's

Enough... I can't take anymore.

[AlainJazz]

Excellent post Reg and this is really one of the keys to reharmonization. I think this concept is so fundamental to understanding jazz harmony and common changes in jazz.

[Reg]

hey thanks Alain,
and I agree... this basic concept of creating chord relationships from basic references is how jazz players comp and solo.
(at least myself and many I know, fairly easy to hear, once your aware)

There are just more.... Chord Patterns, (the II V being one) and more chordal approach patterns, (the V7 Dominant approach) which can be created from different tonal references and relationships and... different Diatonic systems to organize how they work, create movement or Function.

[docbop]

hey thanks Alain,
and I agree... this basic concept of creating chord relationships from basic references is how jazz players comp and solo.
(at least myself and many I know, fairly easy to hear, once your aware)

There are just more.... Chord Patterns, (the II V being one) and more chordal approach patterns, (the V7 Dominant approach) which can be created from different tonal references and relationships and... different Diatonic systems to organize how they work, create movement or Function.

Also cycles of V7 for example Rhythm Changes bridge or in comping cycling back to chord (V7 of V7 of V7 of V7). So much with the strong root movement of V -> I.

Then can start mixing Tri-tone sub's to create chromatic bass movement.

As Reg and Alain said understanding root movement is key to comping and reharmonizing.

[jayv999]

Check out Ted Greene's instruction pages for Secondary Dominants in the "Harmony & Theory" section of his tribute/teaching website:
TedGreene.com - Teachings - Harmony

[Marc-Andre Seguin]

Great replies by all of you guys. I really like the approach Ted Greene takes, also. :-)

Some comments by yours truly: in terms of examples, it's fun to look at a standard and see how you can apply the concepts in your own compositions. It's simply about putting chords to accompany a melody after you have a great melody, right? ;-)

For instance, let's take the first 8 bars of Stella by Starlight: there's *lots* of cool secondary dominant stuff happening in there!

Melody:
-Strictly diatonic in the key of "I major" (if you use the chart above, key of Bb major)

Harmony:
-"What the frack?! Why would we start a tune with Em7(b5) if it's in the key of Bb ?!?"



Let's see...

Bars 1-2
Em7(b5) - A7 --> Secondary II-V to Dm
Note that Dm is III in the key of Bb
Further note: how close to Bb major is a Dm triad? (D - F - A) ... very close. In fact, III is a common substitute for I.

Bars 3-4
Cm7 - F7 ---> II-V in the key of Bb (the key of the piece)
Note ... a no brainer here.

Bars 5-6
Fm7 - Bb7 ---> Secondary II-V to Eb
Note that Eb is the IV in the key of Bb
Further note: the IV chord is extremely common in all music. Think of the blues ...

Bars 7-8
Ebmaj7 - Ab7 ---> not a secondary dominant ...
Note that we have a Bbmaj7 chord in the next bar, so Ab7 acts as a "back door", that is bVII. A very typical thing in standards.
Further note: we can think of Ab7 as an Ebm7 chord ... which is "IV minor", also extremely common in music.


Yet, the melody is completely diatonic!
(And, the icing on the cake is that this simple melody makes use of nice "color notes" if we analyze it in term of the harmony. For instance, the F note in bar 3 is the 11th of the Cm7 chord.)


I hope this helps,
Marc-Andre Seguin

[bobsguitars09]

Find out what the 5th of the next chord is and play that chord as a 7 chord before playing the next chord. done?