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When you com across an 8th note (on the 4&) at the end of a bar and what immediately follows in the next bar is another 8th note(on the &1). Do you play these two 8th's as 16th's?
I hope I made myself clear.
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02-06-2015 11:02 PM
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No. It's the and of four and one.
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If they wanted 16th's they would of written 16th's.
Assuming your talking about swing 8th's the second 8th is longer than a 16th. Think two swing 8th as an 8th note triplet with the first to 8ths tied together.
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One can "play over the bar" with the swing thing when the melody is eighth notes but that is not the same as turning them into sixteenth notes.
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Technically notation is as written, but when performing.... generally the ands or +'s of any beat or subdivision are either...
related to the downbeat before or the down beat following.
So that 8th note your talking about is either .... 4 +, which generally implies relationship with beat 4, but could also be,
+ 1, which implies more of a relationship with beat 1 of next bar. With jazz etc... that last 8th generally is more of an anticipation feel of coming bar, more of a relationship with beat 1 of coming bar, so technically really should be notated differently.
But as performers we need to be aware of what's implied by the style and feel of music also, or we'll sound like somewhat stiff classical players trying to read jazz
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My confusion is how do you play to "ands" in a row? It seems to me that the two sequential "ands" are taking up the same musical count/space.
would it be counted and played like this "4& &1"
thanks
edh
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Maybe it would help to get it down first in straight time, clap, sing, tap or watch your foot. Once you have it as straight time then move on to Swing it. Remember the time space of a quarter note doesn't change. If you are playing straight time two 8th's split the quarter into two halves, but when swinging 8th's you're splitting the quarter up in thirds and giving two thirds to the first eighth note and one third to the second.
Last edited by docbop; 02-07-2015 at 11:33 PM.
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Not following....why don't you explain what you've got in those full two measures? (Is it three quarter notes and two eighths in that first measure, for example?)
Originally Posted by edh
When you say "two and's in a row", that had me thinking: one eighth note at the end of the measure, an eighth rest at the beginning of the next measure, followed by an eighth note. I don't think that's what you're talking about.
Maybe just post the two measures . Nothing wrong with putting up a brief snippet .Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 02-07-2015 at 11:11 PM.
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It's unclear what you mean. Your original post simply sounds like it would be played 4& 1. 4& &1 would be an 8th note on the and of four followed by an 8th rest on 1 and an 8th note on the and of one. That's not mysterious. Maybe you could post an image from a piece of sheet music showing what you mean. Originally Posted by edh
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Originally Posted by edh
No it's still 4 And, 1 And, and so on... They each get half of the length of a quarter note. Check the pyramid out everything is just a equal piece of the whole note.
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The next bar doesn't start on "&"/ It starts on 1. Originally Posted by edh
So if the first measure ends in 8ths and the second measure starts with 8ths, they're still counted
4 & | 1 &
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A picture here would probably clear things up a whole lot quicker...
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Here are some 8th patterns..
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Just for reference... if you don't have Bellson's Modern Reading Text in 4/4 .... If you want to understand and be able to read rhythm...get it and practice. It's that simple.
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There is no "and" before 1, unless it's at the end of the previous measure, in which case it's the "and" of 4.
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Here is a pdf of what I'm trying to convey. Look at bar 11-12. Bar 11 ends on &. bar 12 begins on &.
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OK, thanks for posting that, which clarifies that we're dealing with a nomenclatural problem. Bar 12 does not start on the "&" of 1. It starts smack ON the '1' but it's an 8th note so it doesn't last a whole beat (but that does not mean to count it as an "and").
The proper way to count bar 12 is as follows: F='1'; Eb='&2'; 8th note rest='&'; Ebm9='3'; Ab='4'; Ab13='&'
So to get back to your original question, you would still play each of them as 8th notes; there's no reason to change them to 16th notes.
Hope that helps.Last edited by jasaco; 02-09-2015 at 01:18 AM.
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O.K. thanks for clarifying that. Next question...if Eb='&2' do you play the note on & or 2? I going to guess 2.
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Stop saying it starts on & it is starting on the One. There are no ties or any thing so just forget the preceding bar, treat the previous bar like four quarter notes and sit and clap the rhythm till you have it, then go back to the eights and clap it. Originally Posted by edh
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No you play it on &. Then you play the Ebmi9 on 3. Originally Posted by edh
O.K. thanks for clarifying that. Next question...if Eb='&2' do you play the note on & or 2? I going to guess 2.
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Understandably confusing if you've never seen it before. Understand that its being a quarter note has more to do with its length than which part of the beat it's on.
To kind of illustrate this, look at these examples:
Line one is the exact rhythm in the example. Number two and three are the same thing rewritten a different way. Probably easier to see and count line 3 vs original. But especially line 2, because you can see which beat the notes belong to, being that they're stemmed together.
To illustrate what I was talking about re length versus where things fall in the beat, lines 4, 5 and 6 are the same rhythm with the different duration on the second note. 4 5 and 6 would be played exactly the same as the first three except for the duration. Now it's just a bigger rests (or no rests on line six). Duration is different, but the notes still fall in the same place ( part of the beat) .
The main things is it's really helpful to think of "least common denominator" when the rhythms get more difficult. Rewriting the quarter note as two eighths tied together really helps in counting it and being about to think about it.Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 02-09-2015 at 08:03 AM. Reason: :
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I think it's admirable that you want to learn one of Emily Remler's solos but, with all due respect, you really need to start at square one with reading music, or at least with reading rhythms. This is a very basic question that you have asked that you should be very clear on in your head before tackling an entire jazz solo like this. The good news is that it shouldn't take you long.
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Not to mentioned... some lousy rhythmic notation in general. Back in the early 70's, the imaginary Bar Line became common practice,
which is basically having a imaginary bar line between beats 2 and 3. And use of tie when notes carry over... as Matt posted examples of.
Sight reading is hard enough.
examples of notation made more difficult to sight read than need to be are...bars, 5, the quarter note in middle of bar, on + of 2.
Bar 13, is either triplet figure or depending on tempo, just notate it in typical practice and use accents.
Generally when notating swing feel... the use of 16ths gets in the way of the feel. Usually a grace note(s) or other standard embellishment figure should have been used.
I did read through it quickly, kind of meanders through MM ad Dorian but cool.
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O.K. guys, I got it.
Thanks for your help and patience.
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