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Time to revisit your book obviously, TBH I have not looked into it for a while
Originally Posted by A. Kingstone
On the other hand it was not necessary as things start to come out and be applied naturally after years of practicing sixth/seventh diminished scales for hours.
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Yesterday 11:03 PM
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I have this problem too sometimes. Where I buy a book and then realize that my brain is so big I don’t need it after all. Originally Posted by Bop Head
Time to revisit your book obviously, TBH I have not looked into it for a while
On the other hand it was not necessary as things start to come out and be applied naturally after years of practicing sixth/seventh diminished scales for hours.
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Wow this thread has really become a lightning rod for my sarcasm today.
Apologies to the innocent bystanders.
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My brain is big and quick but I thought it was clear that I learned the sixth/seventh and diminished scales from Alan's book (and from Chris Parks channel, too, I discovered both in late 2019) and then practiced them for years. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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It was. I'm just being difficult. Originally Posted by Bop Head
My brain is big and quick but I thought it was clear that I learned the sixth/seventh and diminished scales from Alan's book (and from Chris Parks channel, too, I discovered both in late 2019) and then practiced them for years.
I feel I should note here that Alan's book is of course, excellent. My brain is not special in anyway, so I'm on like ... page seven or something after about four months.
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But it seems like you were working on a lot of different things at the same time so if at least something sticks in your brain 1.5 pages per month is OK Originally Posted by pamosmusic
My big advantage was that I had already started to work on drop 2 inversions 35 years ago by working through Werner Pöhlert's (in its original form now out-of-print) book "Grundlagenharmonik" ("Basic Harmony" in English). So it was "simply" a matter of repeating them systematically and connecting them with their leading note diminished. I also knew (via Pöhlert again) that a major sixth has the same notes as minor seventh and that a minor sixth is a half-diminished and also a rootless dominant ninth etc. which helped a lot of course in understanding Barry Harris.
But it still took me about five years to engrain it halfway into my body and mind.
"Basic Harmony" would make a nice addition to your collection BTW, it is only 569 pages so it would take you only 31 years and 8 month to work through it completely at your speed.
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...raise any note in a diminished chord and it evolves into a minor 6 chord
C Eb Gb A
so
C E Gb/F# A - Ami6 / D9 / Ab7#5b9 (NR) / Gbmi7b5...and if you ask Ted Greene or Ben Monder there are several other ways to go
Its not that the diminished scale and all the chords you can find in it aren't confusing enough-you can also alter the dim chord
and find an additional 4,5,6 perhaps more chords to just make you head explode...
Thanks Barry
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The key is to apply it. Originally Posted by wolflen
Take this II-V-I example in Bb:
On the II chord play 8-x-8-8-8-x (Cm7), then on the V go from 8-x-7-8-7-x (Co = rootless F7/b9) to 7-x-7-8-6-x (F7/b5 with the b5 in the bass)*) to Bb6: 6-x-5-7-6.
Or connect the I6/3 via bIIIo chromatically with the IIm7 (= IV6) which was the starting point of this thread.
Or connect the I6 with its "sixth on the fifth" (V6 = IIIm7 = rootless Imaj7/9) via diminished as described by Alan in his book (this one I remember haha).
Or like in my first example but the other way round resolve the b5 of a dominant 7/b5 chord to the 5th but catch a new tension note in form of the b9
etc. etc.
*) Hey all you CST people out there, what would you play on a V movement like that?
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There's a lot of ways to play V-I. Depends on what I'm hearing. There's a lot of well known tricks be it 'I went to the Guildhall' (Cry me a River in the US), or the thing where you move the IIm7b5 chord up in minor thirds.
I like what Berkleeoids would call the V13susb9 (Dorian b9) sound a lot. Minor a step down. You can do the minor third trick on the II chord then, which is something you also see in standards changes like Sweet Sue and Avalon.
If you play basic melodic minor/altered stuff on V7 you may miss the 7b5 which is a shame. I think you have to kind of focus on that sound in isolation, or at least I did.
One of my favourite moves which I think of as Monkian is
G-11 G7b5 C
The parallel major seconds are cool
Monk favoured whole tone for dominant sounds. Trane diminished. Altered scale I feel is more of a 'modern default' choice, in someways less interesting. But it can still sound cool if you focus on the b5 and less the more diatonic/minor b9 and b13. In fact that's a potential issue with treating it as a melodic minor mode or minor sub.
I also use
G13b9 C a LOT in major keys. You can fold that out into the C major-6 dim or the dominant-diminished scale (whole-half). The later is often me taking a pattern through minor thirds like the basic b*tch I am. G13b9 also belongs to Ab min 6-dim as Howard Rees notes.
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Or we could go and listen to some music instead. Originally Posted by Bop Head
"Basic Harmony" would make a nice addition to your collection BTW, it is only 569 pages so it would take you only 31 years and 8 month to work through it completely at your speed.
I can't remember the last time I looked at a theory book, other than to see if I agreed with it.
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