I get C but sheet music in Bb and Eb throws me

**335dotfan** · 04-06-2017, 05:10 PM

Sometimes the class has only Eb or Bb sheets and I have to read off horn charts.

Is this common? Our nonprofit community jazz band doesn't always have funds to get all music written three ways. How long did it take to get used to transposing?

**mr. beaumont** · 04-06-2017, 08:46 PM

Ugh, what do they give the piano player?

Transposing isn't terrible, but jeez...

**Rob MacKillop** · 04-07-2017, 02:18 AM

Someone needs to invent a brain capo...

**cosmic gumbo** · 04-07-2017, 03:10 AM

Throw a sheet music fundraiser. That's sad.

**Jonah** · 04-07-2017, 04:42 AM

Is this common? Our nonprofit community jazz band doesn't always have funds to get all music written three ways. How long did it take to get used to transposing?

I guess skills to read from the charts of transposing instruments in big bands or brass bands is necessary evil)))

In the army band I had to play trombone from alto or tenor parts many times... as well as sax players had to read parts in C sometimes...

But army is the arme you know...
...in non-profit community band you can at least ask for a pencil, blank sheet paper and 10-15 minutes to transpose it on paper...

**christianm77** · 04-07-2017, 07:32 AM

Darn usually it's the other way around and I inflict my concert charts on sax players. Bear in mind it's the work of a minute to transpose the file in Sibelius and print....

There are some hacks for reading notation in horn keys... Chords? Well you just have to get good at functional relationships. Assuming the tune is functional, of course.

**Jonah** · 04-07-2017, 08:45 AM

There are some hacks for reading notation in horn keys... Chords? Well you just have to get good at functional relationships. Assuming the tune is functional, of course.

I had tricks also...

When I play from Bb chart I played as if it's tenor clef (I could read more or less fluently by the moment)

When I played from Eb chart I read it as bass clef (octave higher)...

But in both cases you should consider altered notes that are not written at the clef in Bb and Eb charts

**55bar** · 04-07-2017, 02:00 PM

Funny I just bought this today for some transposition practice. Also it's great for sight reading practice just reading as though it's in concert. As it all sits very nicely in the guitar register.

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**Binyomin** · 04-07-2017, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by 55bar

Funny I just bought this today for some transposition practice. Also it's great for sight reading practice just reading as though it's in concert. As it all sits very nicely in the guitar register.

Real Books are
fun in Bb and Eb, too. I don't use them for transposing practice, I just like having my favorite tunes in new keys.

**docbop** · 04-07-2017, 02:42 PM

Getting experience transposing notes and chord symbol is valuable skill if you plan on working with singers. There's money in getting good at backing singers for gigs or even just rehearsing them and helping them find their key.

Also be grateful you're not a horn player. I've been hanging with horn players a lot lately and it never hit me, they hear in concert pitch and have to transpose to their instrument key. Worse sax player flipping back and forth between alto and tenor both different keys. Then when they talk to us rhythm section guys they have to transpose to concert. My head is spinning just talking about it.

**Jonah** · 04-07-2017, 02:57 PM

Getting experience transposing notes and chord symbol is valuable skill if you plan on working with singers. There's money in getting good at backing singers for gigs or even just rehearsing them and helping them find their key.

The most tricky transposing I had was comping for baroque singer on baroque guitar where I had the part in the lute tablature in the key that did not fit the singer)))
You kind of do double transfer: first tab signe to notes then transposing the notes - of course you do it more or less mechanically... but still it is terrible tension...
Luckily the part was not too complex...

**335dotfan** · 04-09-2017, 12:38 AM

I love how deep theory can get. Look at how Beethoven pulled off a lot of great work w/o having to hear it.

My my college roommate would write parts for the whole orchestra and heard it perfectly as he just wrote it. He didn't actually hear it in its entirety until it was played in front of hundreds. He had a secure knowledge in how it would all come together and how each instrument would sound with the parts he assigned everybody.

**christianm77** · 04-09-2017, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by 335dotfan

I love how deep theory can get. Look at how Beethoven pulled off a lot of great work w/o having to hear it.

My my college roommate would write parts for the whole orchestra and heard it perfectly as he just wrote it. He didn't actually hear it in its entirety until it was played in front of hundreds. He had a secure knowledge in how it would all come together and how each instrument would sound with the parts he assigned everybody.

That's not theory, that's audiation.

**Jonah** · 04-09-2017, 08:55 AM

That's not theory, that's audiation.

that comes mostly from culture. and only partly from [rofessional esperience and learning alphabet

**rpjazzguitar** · 04-09-2017, 02:48 PM

My approach to reading an Eb chart with a lot of notes would be to fake equipment failure and try to look really upset that I don't have an opportunity to play the chart.

Then, I'd identify whoever put that chart on my stand and avoid him in the future.

**Jonah** · 04-09-2017, 04:07 PM

My approach to reading an Eb chart with a lot of notes would be to fake equipment failure and try to look really upset that I don't have an opportunity to play the chart.

Then, I'd identify whoever put that chart on my stand and avoid him in the future.

well... if you can afford it...

**marcwhy** · 04-09-2017, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by 335dotfan

Sometimes the class has only Eb or Bb sheets and I have to read off horn charts.

Is this common? Our nonprofit community jazz band doesn't always have funds to get all music written three ways. How long did it take to get used to transposing?

Learning to transpose is a great skill … however, I've NEVER heard of purchasing arrangements without a "C" part! As someone asked, what do the piano and bass players use, and how about the score used by the director???? And who sells this stuff?? What is it, "$20 for Bb & Eb, $40 includes C?!"

That is not common.

**rpjazzguitar** · 04-09-2017, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by marcwhy

Learning to transpose is a great skill … however, I've NEVER heard of purchasing arrangements without a "C" part! As someone asked, what do the piano and bass players use, and how about the score used by the director???? And who sells this stuff?? What is it, "$20 for Bb & Eb, $40 includes C?!"

That is not common.

Multiple reed players often have a couple of switches in their heads that allow them to read charts for different keys. And there are a couple of tricks that others mentioned that cover a few more situations.

I can't recall ever having met a guitarist who could do it.

The logic behind the horn men doing it is that if they don't, the band has to have the appropriate Bb or Eb charts. And, if they only have one chart for everybody, then somebody has to transpose. It might as well be the guy who thinks an Eb is a C.

And, then, there's the issue of who is expecting Concert instrument players to transpose an Eb chart on the fly? Of course, I won't be surprised if it happens, but I'd never do it. Why would I want to increase the difficulty level, and thereby probability of error? If you want the band to sound its best, I'd suggest making everything as simple as possible for everyone.

Charts with big enough fonts, manageable page turns, clear road map, in the right key etc.

**ColinO** · 04-13-2017, 12:11 PM

The best solution is to buy twelve different guitars and tune them all differently. It won't help you get any better at reading but hey - you'll have twelve guitars.