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I wonder how much theory I need to know before learning jazz theory. How many chords (and which), scales and stuff. Is that playlist enough theory so that I will be ready for jazz? Thanks for any tips.
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02-18-2019 03:28 PM
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How much theory do you know already? Do you know how the major scale is constructed, the basic minor scales, triads, the basic 7th chords, the cycle of fifths, the concepts of harmonized scales and chord inversions, a basic ability to read sheet music and to find the notes on a piano? That’s the kind of stuff to start with. I think the video you posted assumes you already know much of that.
Start with simple tunes in major keys. Once you are comfortable with the theory in those tunes you can move toward more difficult music.Last edited by KirkP; 02-18-2019 at 06:26 PM.
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Before getting into jazz you should learn several hundred chords along with about 10 scales, along with memorization of the charts of about 300 tunes.
Just kidding.
Seriously, learn as you go. Long journey begin with first step.
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There are people who can play great jazz and do not know any theory.
That's worth remembering, even though those people are rare.
Most "jazz theory" books seem to begin with basic music theory.
Probably the only thing you really need is to be able to read standard notation and find the notes on the guitar. Maybe not even that. But, since most theory books give examples in standard notation, it helps. It would be even better to be able to play the stuff on piano.
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Originally Posted by Drumbler
^ This...^
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Right now I know how to read some sheet music (not the octaves though). I know how to play major scale and minor pentatonic scales om guitar(only the first position though). I know how to play the mist basic minor and major chords, some 7th chords and some suspended chords. I reserved a book called ”The Jazz Theory Book” since it has been reccomended alot here from the library 2 days Aho so it should code today are tommorow. I also reserved a book called ”The Advancing Guitarist”. So it Will be interesting to read these Books. What I want to learn (I know it takes time) is to have better technique (be able to play faster and have better finger coordination) Play harder stuff faster from tabs and sheets (This is part of technique since I need to learn how to play faster), a lot of chords (jazzy chords????) and some scales in all positions and not just one.
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If you make sure to focus on tunes and the application of theory on those, then you will in fact "learn as you go". As someone who have made sure to take all the wrong roads before finally finding the right one, I've learned that focusing on theory is putting the cart before the horse. Not that it isn't important, it very much is. But it is important as a tool for playing well over tunes, not in itself.
Learn a tune you like. Do you understand how the chords relate to each other, how they imply keys and that those keys might/will change over the course of the form, how the notes of the melody relate to the chords, etc? If not, then that's where theory comes in - learn the tune then learn the workings of it.
Likewise, is there some soloists take on it you particularly love? What is he/she doing over the changes, hw does it relate to the melody, and so on. Again, theory is important as a road to understanding.
Focus at least as much on time as on scales and harmony. It's not an either/or, but a bum note played in time tend to sound better than a cool run with bad phrasing. There's another thing I wish I'd learned early onLast edited by Average Joe; 02-19-2019 at 04:55 AM.
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What playlist? You didn't post one. Was I supposed to watch a half hour video to find out? Originally Posted by AlexMalmis
You should watch this video and then ask.
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Sorry I did something bad with the link. All my Music Lessons (in chronological order) - YouTube There is the playlist. I have not listended too that many jazz artists. I have listened to East Coast Love Afair by Kurt Rosenwinkel and I like it. Sure I Will watch that 2 house video (I am not benig sarcastic).
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Also lose the tabs. Especially since you can already read some. Originally Posted by AlexMalmis
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Less than you might think. Originally Posted by AlexMalmis
You need to be able to map the fretboard, which is not really theory, but may seem that way - so intervals and so on.
You need to be able to construct common chords and scales, again a lot of this will seem unfamiliar for most non-jazz players.
Probably some people have given some lists of material on this thread, I won't add to it.
After that, analysis: know what the chords of the song are, and see what notes your favourite players use over those chords, by ear.
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OK..think of "music theory" as a very big meal..that you have to eat very slowly..chew for a long time and digest fully.. Originally Posted by AlexMalmis
start with the very basic major scale (C scale is recommended !) and learn what chords( begin with triads !) are embedded in it..this is the major scale "harmonized" .. learn how to play those chords once you feel comfortable with that study..learn how to make "four note chords" out of the triads ..these are known as 7th chords and are the main basis for jazz harmony..go very slow with this and study it carefully as it is the foundation of all else to follow..
I suggest a tune "On Green Dolphin Street" in C major..it is a standard in jazz and not difficult..
listen to it from various artists and instruments..get the sheet music for it and follow the melody and chords..hum along with it or "scat sing" it..then sing it while looking at the sheet music..then sing it without the sheet music..then try and play it .. start slow..study the chord movement and the melody..record all this if possible and use it as a "progress" guide..
for me..learning theory is a life long study as it is a story like reason why music behaves as it does in harmonic and melodic ways..and there are always new discoveries in this study
the basic triads from the harmonized major scale and their inversions and voicing placement open a vast array of different sounds..and with the four note chords and their inversions the possibilities are countless..
it takes time, dedication, and alot of patients to get this stuff under your fingers
now..with all that said...you can learn the songs and chords with out learning any theory at all and still be able to play "jazz" there were and are some top players that know just a little theory..enough to communicate with other musicians..chord names and musical terms etc but dont know the why of it and dont care about that aspect. so there is that...
hope this helps
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When jazz looks complex, it's usually because we don't see the actual simple explanation, e.g. some complicated chord that is really just two chords played together like a G7 and an E major triad on top of that.
Read the jazz theory book you mentioned. Don't read Advancing Guitarist for a few years- it's not aimed at people just starting jazz.
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...says Dr.Jazz.... Originally Posted by wolflen
(sorry but this was too good to resist....
)
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Trad attack!
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I checked the book. It seende ok for me. I want to be bettet at guitar as Well. Originally Posted by Cunamara
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I watched the beggining but didnt understand so I closed the vid. Also I dont understand Deutsch. I dont think there are any jazz teachers here. Maybe teachers that teach open chords.. Originally Posted by djg
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I'd say concentrate on the musical facts first
But seriously...learn as you go...ALWAYS BE LEARNING SONGS.
And as you go, the basics that are completely undeniably liberating. Know the fretboard. Know how to construct chords--what notes are IN the chords, not just shapes. Definitely know the major scales, definitely know arpeggios for the chords you learn. Every time you learn a new chord, learn an arpeggio for it.
I think you said in another post you've been playing a bit over a month...so really, one of the best things you could be learning right now is how to make a good sound with your instrument. How to press down a note only hard enough. How to play with dynamics. Simple melodies, make them as beautiful as you can.
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gumbo's such a troll lol
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Not much at all ....
learn the the major scale really well
(in C probably first)
and all the chords and arpeggios in it
then learn some actual tunes
This is the road map of lots of western music ....
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What a great video. One of the best I've seen in a long time. My wife is going to be after me about data overages, but I could not stop watching this on my phone. Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
I also personally love that he really gets at the way players "think " or don't think about scales , note choices etc. while playing. Talks about how Stan getz "knew" all of them by ear and that he did himself as well, even before he knew what they were called. Does at a lot on the idea of taking chord scale knowledge from conscious to subconscious thought and being able to freely improvise without thinking so much etc.
So many forum threads devolve into this false "debate". Should sticky this video before getting into these huge debates about how players "think in modes" while improvising.
Burton is of course a great player and is great in this teaching format as well.
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Gary is accepted as one of the most important educators in the history of jazz. That's why I posted this video again, not to be a troll, but to enlighten, as always.
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Interesting. Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
Burton gets a gold star for making the playing of jazz appear as complicated and confusing as possible.
A newb would be totally baffled and intimidated to even attempt to learn jazz by this video but experienced jazzers can benefit.
I will get to work learning the 10-12 required scales so that I may instantaneously connect them to the chords passing by at intervals of every 1/2 second.
Stan Getz is thrashed by Burton for playing by ear. Getz did not know the 10-12 required scales!
Last edited by Drumbler; 02-24-2019 at 10:25 AM.
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You're playing a dangerous game my friend. CST police are watching. A full out CST touch down has been slowly brewing in this thread. Don't do this. Like a wise man once said: Originally Posted by Drumbler
They're out to get you, better leave while you can
Don't want to be a boy, you want to be a man
You want to stay alive, better do what you can
So beat it, just beat itLast edited by Tal_175; 02-24-2019 at 06:12 PM.
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I thought I must watch this... and saw it was 2 1/4 hours long! I shall watch it in increments. It's the only way.
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