The Jazz Theory Book by Mark Levine

[rintincop]

Block chord tweaking, strictly with the JTB melodic minor modes.

[grahambop]

Block chord tweaking, strictly with the JTB melodic minor modes.

Could we have that in notation? easier to read.

[grahambop]

Adorno could have been the inspiration for Hans Groiner, perhaps?

[grahambop]

Hans Groiner is in fact a spoof (it is really Larry Goldings), he does it very convincingly!

[Vladan]

Hans Groiner is in fact a spoof (it is really Larry Goldings), he does it very convincingly!

Talking to me? I know very well who he is. I saw that clip, (and another one, or two) many times, over the years, probably shared it, too.
I guess it is good to make it clear, though, for unsuspecting public. There will always be some eager to riot after The Onion article.

Also, just because he is spoof character, does not mean what he says is not correct.

[rintincop]

My dominant block chords

[Reg]

So Rintin....

Whats the point of your block chords... I read through them.... The altered Dominate series sound ? Where would you use that.
I liked the Sus version... the #11 version was a little vanilla... not to mentioned the left hand stretch. You must have huge hands

[rintincop]

It's just how I personally like to block chord, I also block the traditional way.

[starjasmine]

Adorno could have been the inspiration for Hans Groiner, perhaps?

Wow, I LOVE that almost as much as the 4/4 version of the Mission: Impossible theme!

[Irishmuso]

It's just how I personally like to block chord, I also block the traditional way.

I like the sounds but some of the stretches are intimidating. Any chance of showing how you finger the chords?

[grahambop]

I assumed rintincop’s examples are piano chords, not guitar.

[christianm77]

Simplest thing would be to turn them into drop 2s (take the second note from the top and put it down an octave.)

[Reg]

Yea I read through on piano... they're not for guitar.

Guitar Block chords... G7...with MM and Blue notes. Lead line on top.

3 2 3 2 2 X
X 2 3 2 3 X
X 4 3 4 5 X
X 5 3 5 6 X
X 8 9 9 10 X
X 10 10 10 12 X
X X 9 10 10 9 X
X X 10 10 10 12

with triplet feel... using lead line up and back down

3 2 3 2 2 X
X 2 3 2 3 X
X 5 3 5 6 X
X 8 9 9 10 X
X 10 10 10 12 X
X X 9 10 10 9

X X 10 10 10 12
X X 9 10 10 10
X X 9 10 10 9
X 8 9 9 10 X
X 5 3 5 6 X
3 X 3 4 5 X

made like.....now with no dim references. Voicings I actually use all the time.

[rintincop]

Playing the blues with block chords, inspired by listening to pianist and organist Milt Bruckner, one of the originators of the style:

[rintincop]

Don't guitarists who study theory also play basic piano to explore voicings and compose? It has been required in music schools for centuries, no?

[rpjazzguitar]

Don't guitarists who study theory also play basic piano to explore voicings and compose? It has been required in music schools for centuries, no?

I have a piano and use if for working on voicings. It is interesting (maybe more interesting than helpful, in a way, because of the limitations of guitar) to understand how pianists voice chords between their two hands.

Recently, a pianist friend was working on what struck me as a difficult transcription. The chord voicings sounded exotic and were hard, for me, to figure out.

My friend pointed out that the pianist on the recording was keeping his left hand on the same three notes and playing different triads with his right hand. If you listened to the two hands individually, the transcription was much easier.

As a guitarist, I wasn't taught to think about things like that, but, obviously, it's a good idea to understand it.

My haphazard education in chord voicings taught me about individual bass notes and comping with two to four note voicings an octave up. But, I never thought about trying to get the equivalent of a three note voicing in the left hand and playing something else on top of it.
And, even as I think about it now, the only way I can think of to do it would be to write a chart for the bassist so I know what bass notes I'm going to hear, and maybe give the bassist two or three notes (meaning the voicing in the pianist's left hand).

I've done that just a bit with a bassist, where we decided (duo format) to play everything in 13th chords by distributing the notes between the two instruments as best we could. It sounded great, but didn't work on it for long.

I'm confident somebody is going to post about a guitarist(s) who have developed this idea, but the closest I've come is playing smaller voicings (often three notes) which are extensions of the harmony.

[OneWatt]

... [snip] I could make a list of all the stuff I think is wrong or omitted from the book. But that’s not really the point.

Yet it does seem like the point... feels like I just read a long list of stuff you think is wrong or omitted from the book ;-)

Although I agree with you that Levine's book (like every book on every topic) fails to accomplish certain things for which you'd wished, there's plenty of valuable information about jazz theory in his book. I suggest we give credit where it's due.

[rintincop]

Here's a great Frank Sinatra ballad for trying your hand at block chording. Lot's of diminished choices and the densities of voicings choices to be considered. Try 4 way close or drop 2. The triplet chromatic motif in bar 2 is too heavy all in 4 note density, so I phrase it so I play 2 note density, 2 note density, 3 note density, 3 note density, 4 note density...

the important thing is how you harmonize that last note in bar 2, it's can be an anticipation note of the harmony in 3rd bar or it can be diminished...

[christianm77]

Yet it does seem like the point... feels like I just read a long list of stuff you think is wrong or omitted from the book ;-)

Although I agree with you that Levine's book (like every book on every topic) fails to accomplish certain things for which you'd wished, there's plenty of valuable information about jazz theory in his book. I suggest we give credit where it's due.

Haha I didn’t even get started. If you think this was bad.... :-) there’s loads and loads of stuff I haven’t talked about. But no one cares, so meh.

There are many books on jazz I would recommend before this work and that’s basically the long and short of it. So I don’t see an equivalence between this and any other texts.

As it is it’s an interesting book that presents as comprehensive and authoritative.

i don’t think it’s devoid of value, with a rewrite and reorganisation I think it could be much better. Great, in fact.

I’d also call it something like ‘Mark Levine’s Postbop Cookbook.’

(agreeing to disagree doesn’t mean there isn’t a disagreement.)

[Reg]

Yes... I play piano... well I sight read on piano. No chops. But yes I would think so... I also play bass, trombone and saxes. Again I suck... but can sight read and understand how what I write sounds and might be played on instruments.

Don't pianist play other instruments? LOL

[rintincop]

I play piano professionally, I am also an amateur player on guitar, bass, and drums.

[rintincop]

quote[ Here's a great Frank Sinatra ballad for trying your hand at block chording. Lot's of diminished choices and the densities of voicings choices to be considered. Try 4 way close or drop 2. The triplet chromatic motif in bar 2 is too heavy all in 4 note density, so I phrase it so I play 2 note density, 2 note density, 3 note density, 3 note density, 4 note density... the important thing is how you harmonize that last note in bar 2, it's can be an anticipation note of the harmony in 3rd bar or it can be diminished...]

To diminish or not to diminish, that is the question...

[OneWatt]

Haha I didn’t even get started. If you think this was bad.... :-)

There are many books on jazz I would recommend before this work and that’s basically the long and short of it. So I don’t see an equivalence between this and any other texts.

i don’t think it’s devoid of value, with a rewrite and reorganisation I think it could be much better. Great, in fact.

(agreeing to disagree doesn’t mean there isn’t a disagreement.)

Agreed.

[rintincop]

Here's how I personally might vary the block chord density on piano to avoid muddiness... handle the dense diminished with care.
Full chart available with Sinatra's phrasing

[rintincop]

Does anyone know this pretty ballad by Jules Styne. Peggy Lee made it famous.