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Or, 'why a little music theory can be a dangerous thing.'
Adam Neely explains.
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03-16-2021 03:51 PM
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A link to the Ethan Hein blogpost on blues tonality, mentioned in Part 4 of the video above.
Blues tonality | The Ethan Hein Blog
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Delicious!
Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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An assortments of E?
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Well worth the read. My personal take? Damned straight! Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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Too tired to listen to a 17' video...or read blog posts...
Isn't it just a cycle of 5ths?
C....G
G....D
D....A
A....E
Who cares what key it's in?
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I know a few guitarists that have to care; They can only play in the key of E! Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
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Exactly. Why overcomplicate it? Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
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I found the video entertaining.
Its most definitely an E Blues.
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joke warning:
The C and G chords are borrowed from Em (bVI and bIII)
the parallel minor of E major. D and A are bVII and IV of E mixolydian.
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I enjoyed the video and found it worth the time. Neely is a smart guy with a good sense of humor.
He's not trying to overcomplicate.
Rather, he's, uh, un-complicating it. ;o)
That's a main point of Ehan Hein's blog post: blues is its own thing (and blues is more than just I-IV-V).
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Adam ics such an agreeable smart-ass
Also, I really like his openness towards all styles of music. He got me hooked on Beyoncé's "Single Ladies".. and that is saying something
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These youtubers are time vampires. Lure you in with an interesting title, then it's just blah blah blah, sometimes they never even make it to the point just "Tune in to my next video where we continue this discussion" except it's not a discussion, it's completely one sided.
I'm surprised at my own strong opinion here.
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"Those youtubers..." quite a generalization given there are about 50 million of them. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
Generally, I find Adam Neely very much anti-blickbaity if that makes sense. He very precisely answers the question stated in the title of the video.
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"Blues is its own thing" Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
This.^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I strongly recommend the Ehan Hein article. It corrects a few misconceptions regarding the Blues.
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I pasted it into a Word document (minus the pictures of the videos) and printed it for ready reference. Originally Posted by citizenk74
"Blues is its own thing"
This.^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I strongly recommend the Ehan Hein article. It corrects a few misconceptions regarding the Blues.
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"Tymoczko immediately follows his discussion of blues with the example of jazz improviser Wayne Marsh playing an E major chord over E-flat major tonality. He is no doubt correct that Marsh is intentionally violating his listeners’ harmonic expectations in order to create tension. However, few blues players believe themselves to be playing intentionally “wrong” notes; quite to the contrary."
From the Hein blog (pretty exhaustive review)
Still with the "wrong notes" perspective? I do stuff like this all the time from a jazz perspective and certainly don't consider it as intentionally violating listeners' harmonic expectations, and I don't agree with the suggested implication that both jazz and blues musicians do it, but that the jazzers know better and bluesers don't.
For example, Tenderly (Eb).
At the end of the first time through the A section its finishes by heading for Ebmaj7 by way of Fm and Bb(7).
So ...Fm Bb(7) Ebmaj.
The move Fm Bb Eb is a "2-5-1" here and it sustains a strong tonality of Eb as the target throughout. Playing "E stuff" within an "Eb tonality" can be just fine, even very beautiful if I help it sound that way... that's our musical purpose, right?
The common temptation might be to play the Bb as 6x6433 so Bb Ab B D G so "Bb(13)b9".
A sound I like to play there for that Bb chord is 6x6454 so Bb Ab B E Ab so the pretty name "BM13sus4/Bb".
However, this is really disguising how close it is to E/Bb, showing the "wrong" E chord sound emerging.
If you just test play Fm E Ebmaj the E chord sounds not terrible vanilla jazz OK, just a slight harmonic jilt.
However, accompanying the raw E major with a Bb bottom by E/Bb is better.
Bb(13)b9 is very nice, and the ugly E chord sound and symbol are gone, replaced with a rootless G major on top.
BM13sus4/Bb is very much nicer in spite of bringing back the E major sound, but at least the name is prettier without mentioning it.
Of course too nice may not be quite right in every situation.
The extremely nicest might be to play that Bb chord as a move from Bb(13)b9 into BM13sus4/Bb.
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Warne not Wayne, Mister Hein.
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That was good/interesting! I always thought it was in E, but...
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Jimi didn't write it. It's a song by Billy Roberts and Jimi covered it. Originally Posted by Midnight Blues
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I loved this, thanks Mark !
"A little theory can be dangerous" ... I left the article thinking a lot of theory -can- totally undermine the music
..handle with care..
We humans love our systems and they can be very helpful, but sometimes it just goes too far. It reminds me of the warning "test a small amount in a discrete area" -lol
I learned something from the section on harmony, I never though about the major 7ths this way.
Cheers,
Mike
Edit: the "wrong notes" ..hahaha.. seems to me some of the jazz guys helped build a genre with those notes. These days they're hip and if you don't use a few, you're "vanilla". I kinda wish that article had been picked up for publication, but then part of me is glad it wasn't .... mayhem may have ensued
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To me it is is quite typical simple modal harmony... common in folk music, often in rock etc.
It is E myxolidian harmony (if the changes are D, A, E)
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Correct; Ray Charles didn't write Georgia on My Mind either. Originally Posted by CarlD
Yea, the latter is a sore spot for me! (ha ha).
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When people associate a singer with a song they aren't claiming the singer WROTE the song. They likely couldn't care less who wrote it. Elvis didn't write "Heartbreak Hotel" or "Hound Dog" or "All Shook Up" or "Love Me Tender" but those are all Elvis songs. Originally Posted by jameslovestal
I wrote a song called "Sinatra Songs" and the chorus goes: "When night comes punching like ten King Kongs / I beat it back with Sinatra songs. / When I'm in the tank / I dial up Frank." The verses are made up of song titles and lyrics. Frank didn't write any of them. But they are "Sinatra songs" in the sense intended and that confuses no one.
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I don't agree; The people that mentioned this (some were famous singers) clearly were under the impression that Charles wrote the song. Either way, I still find not knowing who wrote a song, when one says the song is one of their favorites, as being clueless, but that is because I feel songwriters don't get enough credit. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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