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This week's click bait!
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05-04-2022 10:12 AM
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Whass harnomic minor?
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It is the fourth mode of Phrygian dominant.
Originally Posted by ragman1
Whass harnomic minor?
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Ella knew how to use this scale :
according to me it's a common "mother scale" for jazz and usefull.
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I don't care how old fashioned it sounds, I will always use PD licks on V chords that resolve to a minor, and nobody's gonna stop me!
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the jazz police are coming Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Great video and I esp. appreciate the call out for the Autumn Leaves minor key center thing. Although all I could think about was your flip-flop on "Mickey Mouse guitars"! What's the story there? You saved me $3k on an Ibanez Scofield but maybe I should buy one after all...
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oh that was some unrelated person called ‘christianm77’ nothing to do with me ;-) Originally Posted by tomems
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Are they called "PD licks" because they summon the Police Department of Jazz? Originally Posted by christianm77
Originally Posted by mr beaumont
the jazz police are coming
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Didn't see the video but I always use the Harmonic Minor. It seems to not be the preferred way of dealing with iiø-V but that's what I use 99% of the time. No one hears the harmonic minor scale though when I do.
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In New Zealand, PD means preventative detention, an indeterminate sentence to prevent the offender committing further serious crimes. Originally Posted by orri
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Thats a really great point…. I think it’s the same for me? Originally Posted by henryrobinett
One thing I learned from Barry is that the way you model things in your mind may not be obvious from what you actually play. I think music analysis is really stymied by this; it’s guess work to a greater or lesser extent.
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Cool, so long as you guys haven’t gone full Minority Report Originally Posted by Litterick
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How to use the harmonic minor in jazz? Sparingly. It’s not really a jazz sound. It comes out of European and Middle Eastern folk traditions. In it’s pure form it sounds contrived in a jazz context due to a characteristic large intervalic leap. Jazz is an American art form, and while borrowing European harmonic traditions, it is largely based on African rhythms and blues. Sure you can find examples of it occurring in jazz (Nature Boy etc), but it is not as common as, and often mistaken for, its cousin the melodic minor.
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Well I don’t know what to say. Dogmatic statements like this are just, not wrong, just dogmatic. As I said I use it ALL the time. I doubt you will ever hear as harmonic minor because it doesn’t sound like it in the context of the music. It’s just a tool. One of many, that has its place. I rarely find the melodic minor and harmonic minor interchangeable. Originally Posted by Victor Saumarez
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProLast edited by henryrobinett; 05-06-2022 at 02:52 PM.
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I don't think Victor Suamarez is in contradiction with Christian's video. He is talking about the "pure sound of harmonic minor". A lot of Christian's video is about how to play the harmonic minor while avoiding making it sound like the "harmonic minor scale".
I think the scale under the discussion in this thread is not the harmonic minor scale as the context is not tonic minor but dominant. It's the phrygian dominant scale which doesn't sound like the harmonic minor scale anyway. Not anymore than phrygian minor lines sound like major lines.
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OK. Apologies. I haven't watched the video. My bad. Interestingly I recently post me playing "Reincarnation of a Lovebird" which has harmonic minor all over it. I'll keep my mouth shut from here on out again. LOL.
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I was under the impression that you also weren't after the "sound" of harmonic minor but used it more as a note collection over minor type dominants (based on your previous comment). No? Originally Posted by henryrobinett
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I have no problem with it sounding like or not sounding like HM. It just doesn’t. I’m not trying to hide it. Lol. I’m just saying that some people knock it because it sounds like harmonic minor. My experience is when you play it in bebop or whatever it doesn’t identify itself as HM like say the whole tone does. You just don’t hear it. Not like Gypsy Jazz or speed metal.
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Right, HM doesn't have to sound like I'm burning on "Dark Eyes." Originally Posted by henryrobinett
But it could
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we called this "les yeux noirs" in France ! Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Right, HM doesn't have to sound like I'm burning on "Dark Eyes."
But it could
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C HM is C D Eb F G Ab B C.
Started on the 5th, it's G Ab B C D Eb F G Ab.
EDIT: Erroneous statement pointed out by Christian, removed.
Now, consider G7b9b13. G B D F Ab Eb. Six notes. All but C, which is the fourth, and sometimes called an avoid note on a G7.
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So, HM, is pretty much playing a G7b9b13 arp over the G7. You get the chord tones of G7 and two extensions.
You can achieve a similar sound by playing an Ab minor triad. Or, if you want to get fancier, a Db13.
Using an Abm triad (with an added 9) also gets the altered sound, which is based on G Ab Bb B Db Eb F. No avoid note (if you buy into that idea).
But, back to HM. Might it be better to think about the G7b9b13 arp than the full HM scale -- considering that the C may be the worst sounding note?
In looking at some articles on the internet, the HM scale is, apparently, most commonly applied in a iim7b5 - V7b9b13 - i minor situation.
Or, a Vb9 as the dominant. The arp will work in those situations.Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 05-06-2022 at 08:46 PM.
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Tbh a lot of points people are making here are somewhat addressed in the vid.
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Lol. Well I’m watching the video now. Good stuff Christian. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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eh? Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
phrygian = 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
Phrygian dominant = 1 b2 3 4 5 b6 b7
That’s one note difference - b3 to 3
Am I going mental?
Time for bed.
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