Modes arranged in a musical sequence

[pamosmusic]

Anybody who sees the delta knows its major 7 … what they actually play is another story. People certainly write the “triangle 7” on the chart, but it’s editorial and not necessary

[ragman1]

Incredible. Paul has been here since 2011. In all that time he's never seen the delta sign on any lead sheet or website? Or, if he has seen it, he never found out what it meant? Incredible.

[Christian Miller]

What on earth did I just read?


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[pamosmusic]

Is C+4 indicating Caug5add4 (so #5), Caug4 (so #4), Cadd4, or C(#4)?
But then what about C++4, is that Caugadd4 or Cadd#4?
What about C-+++4 as "C minor augmented fifth add sharp fourth"...?
oh wait, that's Ab dominant seventh in first inversion.

C augmented add 4 … C E G# F … enharmonically that’s Fmin(maj7

C add #4 would be used with the “add” designation which is the purpose of that designation.

C++4 is silly … C+ with an added augmented 4 would G#7(#5) and the other thing you mentioned doesn’t even make sense. No one uses “+” in this context in place of the word “add”

So these only turn up when people ignore the practical and functional implications of the music they’re writing.

Any system that doesn’t take into account the practicalities of its application will look ridiculous and spend more time solving problems that don’t exist than being useful to its practitioners.

[wolflen]

Incredible. Paul has been here since 2011. In all that time he's never seen the delta sign on any lead sheet or website? Or, if he has seen it, he never found out what it meant? Incredible.

Not so incredible..

I have played with a guitarist and a reed player..both did not read music..but could play any tune that was being called..amazing!

OTOH..I played with another guitarist who got lost on basic blues changes..and he could read Bach.

[ragman1]

Not so incredible..

Then why is he posting this nonsense which purports to explain the delta and other symbols?

Modes arranged in a musical sequence

[supersoul]

Triangle Toss, explained:

[Christian Miller]

We’re clearly all Aebersold kids so I guess the joke’s on us


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[Bop Head]

We’re clearly all Aebersold kids [...]

I see this as an insult being a Pöhlert kid since 1989.

[Christian Miller]

I see this as an insult being a Pöhlert kid since 1989.

Quite right.

But we can both look down on people who use Aebersold charts for Jobim tunes. Because jazz is all about the pecking order ;-)

[Bop Head]

Quite right.

I don't know who Pöhlert is and also don't care enough to click on the link. This too, no doubt, is an insult.

But we can both look down on people who use Aebersold charts for Jobim tunes. Because jazz is all about the pecking order ;-)

Pöhlert was a German guitarist who learned jazz the old school way and later wrote some very practically oriented theory books that saved me from Berklee-esque chord scale theory very early.

Regarding Aebersold charts: I haven't looked at the Aebersold Jobim charts yet (knowing where to find the originals) but e.g. the Dameron stuff is quite good, especially compared to those famous fake books whose names I hardly dare to speak out loud ...

But the Aebersold scale syllabus never interested me -- thank God and Werner Pöhlert. Who won national jazz polls in the 50ies, so he was high ranking in the national jazz pecking order.

EDIT: There are Werner Pöhlert signature models by Höfner.

EDIT 2: Time to pick up my axe. Just got a picking order.

[AllanAllen]

Pöhlert was a German guitarist who learned jazz the old school way and later wrote some very practically oriented theory books that saved me from Berklee-esque chord scale theory very early.

Regarding Aebersold charts: I haven't looked at the Aebersold Jobim charts yet (knowing where to find the originals) but e.g. the Dameron stuff is quite good, especially compared to those famous fake books whose names I hardly dare to speak out loud ...

But the Aebersold scale syllabus never interested me -- thank God and Werner Pöhlert. Who won national jazz polls in the 50ies, so he was high ranking in the national jazz pecking order.

EDIT: There are Werner Pöhlert signature models by Höfner.

EDIT 2: Time to pick up my axe. Just got a picking order.

Got any clips? He’s not on Spotify.

[Bop Head]

Got any clips? He’s not on Spotify.

From the internet archive (feat. Albert Mangelsdorff on bone):

Wolfgang-Lauth-Septett - Tele Funky : WOLFGANG-LAUTH-SEPTETT : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

There is more with Wolfgang Lauth on YouTube, search for "Wolfgang Pöhlert" in quotation marks (you can copy from here because of the umlaut).

Later he concentrated more on renaissance and baroque music and developing his teaching method (of which the out-of-print "Basic Harmony" can be also be found used in English if you are lucky).

[AllanAllen]

From the internet archive (feat. Albert Mangelsdorff on bone):

Wolfgang-Lauth-Septett - Tele Funky : WOLFGANG-LAUTH-SEPTETT : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

There is more with Wolfgang Lauth on YouTube, search for "Wolfgang Pöhlert" in quotation marks (you can copy from here because of the umlaut).

Later he concentrated more on renaissance and baroque music and developing his teaching method (of which the out-of-print "Basic Harmony" can be also be found used in English if you are lucky).

That’s cool, thanks. I like the arrangement transitioning sax and flute solos on Tele Funky

the second track was better.

[pauln]

I downloaded Pöhlert's book. I wonder if Coltrane read it...

Coltrane...


Pöhlert...

[ragman1]

Pöhlert...

Was Pohlert's book in German? Etc is not German!

[Bop Head]

Was Pohlert's book in German? Etc is not German!

But "kindergarten" is ...

[Bop Head]

I downloaded Pöhlert's book. I wonder if Coltrane read it...

Coltrane...


Pöhlert...

The difference is in Coltrane baffling posterity by the diagram published in Lateef's Thesaurus without further explanation and Pöhlert illustrating his points very clearly by hundreds of diagrams accompanying his texts.

BTW could you provide a link? Someone really took it upon "theirself" to scan a few hundred pages ... I have always been interested in the translation.

EDIT: The English edition of "Grundlagenharmonik" is "only" 579 pages. The 9th German edition I have is 931 pages.

[ragman1]

But "kindergarten" is ...

Kindergarten is a German word adopted into English, as you know. But the point was that the drawing taken from the book by Pohlert, presumably in German, has the word etc in it rather than usw. As you know.

So I'm wondering where the drawing came from. But you may not know, of course. We'd have to ask Paul.

The Coltrane drawing is a fascinating piece of art... but musically pointless.

[ragman1]

Got any clips? He’s not on Spotify.

Wolfgang Lauth - Piano
Werner Pöhlert - Guitarre
Peter Trunk - Bass
Joe Hackbarth - Schlagzeug

[pauln]

Was Pohlert's book in German? Etc is not German!

It's all in English except for his name and the occasional word like "Wechseldominante" (double dominant).

The book is an absolute hoot! Thousands of illustrations, fantastic development of structures, the appendix has pages designed to be cut out with little windows with other pages designed to be cut into strips to be slid through behind the windows. As soon as I finished downloading (over 100MB pdf file) I started to look it over and three hours later I kind of snapped out of it like from a dream... the last time I read something that did that was Buckminster Fuller's Synergetics.

Here's a few pages...

[Bop Head]

[...] presumably in German, has the word etc in it rather than usw. [...]

Maybe a second, less superficial look at the diagram ...?

And disclaimer: I am not the only German who learned Latin in school. Which is not a prerequisite for 99 % of the population for knowing what the lean-word et cetera means. When I worked in a kindergarten the kids probably would not know yet ...

The Coltrane drawing is a fascinating piece of art... but musically pointless.

So glad that finally someone solved this problem ...

[Bop Head]

It's all in English except for his name and the occasional word like "Wechseldominante" (double dominant).

The book is an absolute hoot! Thousands of illustrations, fantastic development of structures, the appendix has pages designed to be cut out with little windows with other pages designed to be cut into strips to be slid through behind the windows. As soon as I finished downloading (over 100MB pdf file) I started to look it over and three hours later I kind of snapped out of it like from a dream... the last time I read something that did that was Buckminster Fuller's Synergetics.

Here's a few pages...

Glad to hear you like the book. I haven't read Fuller (I only know a little bit about his dome constructions after having worked at an installation inspired by Fuller once) but my experience regarding Pöhlert's "Grundlagenharmonik" was similar after discovering it in the huge music department of Munich's main public library long time ago. I absolutely love the practical and especially the visual approach.

[pauln]

BTW could you provide a link? Someone really took it upon "theirself" to scan a few hundred pages ... I have always been interested in the translation.

I downloaded it from here

https://annas-archive.org/md5/d10569...1b176732958dd1

I used "Slow Downloads - Option #3: Slow Partner Server #3 (no waitlist, but can be very slow)"

Took about 15 minutes

[ragman1]

The diagram posted by Paul doesn't appear in the three images he posted. Assuming it did come from the book, and the book is in English, then etc is obviously fine.